[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: [xmca] 1982 paper on schooling
Hi Carol
Yes, one of our problems in qualitative research is how to handle the
quantity and complexity of data. To analyse empirical data I have been using
Nvivo or MaxQDA.
I am going to write to Jaki. Thank you very much.
Best,
Luísa A.
On 30 June 2010 15:28, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Luisa
>
> I got my student Jaki to do an extended *ethnography* for his M Ed. He
> spent several months in two grades of a Catholic school, interviewed
> teachers and children as themes seemed to start developing; also did a
> video
> on a class theme on leadership, and analysed this. He took me very
> earnestly
> about exact data, and after 6 weeks had 1,000 pages of data! He used a
> qualitative research computer program which was able to handle a lot of
> complexity, but when we looked at the tags he had attached to the data, we
> were able to move down from about 30 "meanings" to 3, since there were very
> minute specifications which were not helpful in themselves. Jaki is hoping
> to present a paper on this methodology at Rome, and I hope to present his
> data on bullying in Rome too. Jaki is an xmca-er so you can write to him if
> you want to.
> *patrick.jaki@gmail.com
>
> *Carol
>
>
> On 29 June 2010 21:30, Luisa Aires <laires11@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike, Steve and All
> >
> >
> >
> > I like your summary, Steve. This is a vygotskian and bakhtinian article
> > with
> > a set of topics that are of interest to us: literacy practices, oral and
> > written language, schooling, critical feminism and research methodology.
> >
> > I would like to privilege and discuss the last topic. In fact, to study
> > *"*
> > everyday/scientific" knowledge as a function of years of schooling” and
> > measuring it with a “nouns”* *test may be a reductionist perspective.
> > Despite this, the article may be interpreted as an exploratory step of a
> > larger research; and its subject is a promising refreshment for me.
> >
> > Discourse analysis methodologies may be a central issue to study literacy
> > practices. From a cultural historical perspective (to analyse discourse
> > practices in literacy research), what kind of methodological choices do
> we
> > need to make? Interviews? Natural observation? How to analyse multiple
> data
> > we collect with all this methods?
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Luísa A
> >
> >
> > On 28 June 2010 00:56, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Cool summary of the article, Steve.
> > > A variety of issues ensue, but which are of interest to people?
> > >
> > > mike
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Steve Gabosch <stevegabosch@me.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I like this article Mike just posted - Focus on Women's Empowerment
> in
> > > > Latin America Maternal Schooling and Health-Related Language and
> > Literacy
> > > > Skills in Rural Mexico
> > > > by EMILY R. DEXTER, SARAH E. LEVINE, AND PATRICIA M. VELASCO.
> > > >
> > > > Here are some extracts that stand out for me. <Bracketed comments>
> are
> > > > mine, the rest is quoted from the article. Interesting connections
> to
> > > > recent discussions. I find doing this kind of summary helpful for me
> > to
> > > > absorb this kind of writing, so here goes.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ***********
> > > > <1. One of the measurements used in this study of rural Mexican women
> > > > regarding how they responded to health interviews and information was
> > to
> > > > measure how they defined the meanings of common nouns in a noun
> > > definition
> > > > task.>
> > > >
> > > > Following Snow in her research with schoolchildren, we employed a
> noun
> > > > definition task to assess women's decontextualized language skills.
> > Women
> > > > were asked the meaning of 10 simple nouns such as "knife," "thief,"
> and
> > > > "dog" with the question, "What is a ?" Their responses are scored on
> a
> > > > continuum from highly contextualized to highly decontextualized. A
> > > > contextualized definition of "thief" would be "One stole my
> > television,"
> > > > while a decontextualized response would refer to abstract properties:
> > "A
> > > > person who steals from others." A highly contextualized description
> of
> > > "cat"
> > > > might be to point to a cat in the room, while a decontextualized
> > > description
> > > > would describe it in terms of its superordinate category membership
> ("a
> > > cat
> > > > is an animal...") and specific properties ("that is domesticated,
> > > nocturnal,
> > > > and has fur and whiskers").
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <2. The noun definition task employed in this study is similar to
> > aspects
> > > > of Luria's study.>
> > > >
> > > > The noun definition is the verbal equivalent of the object
> > classification
> > > > task that A. R. Luria used when investigating the reasoning
> strategies
> > of
> > > > Soviet peasants. Luria found that nonliterates with no schooling
> were
> > > more
> > > > likely to classify objects according to function rather than
> > > superordinate
> > > > category: a scythe would be grouped with wheat rather than with other
> > > tools,
> > > > for example. Luria proposed that schooling and literacy promote
> > > > classification systems that are abstracted from everyday life.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <3. Socioeconomic status tends to predict the length of answers to
> > > > questions in a health interview.>
> > > >
> > > > While the noun definition, listening comprehension, and reading
> > > > comprehension scores were predicted by length of schooling, adult
> > > > socioeconomic status is the only variable that predicts how much a
> > woman
> > > > speaks in an interview. Women with more socioeconomic resources, on
> > > average,
> > > > gave longer responses than women with fewer resources, regardless of
> > > > education level. We have not found evidence, then, that women learned
> > > this
> > > > skill in school. It should be noted, however, that adult
> socioeconomic
> > > > status explains only 25 percent of the variance in this measure,
> > showing
> > > > that at each level of socioeconomic status considerable variation
> > exists
> > > in
> > > > the length of responses.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <4. Schooling and literacy help women understand oral public health
> > > > messages.>
> > > >
> > > > The oral language skills effective for local, face-to-face
> > communication,
> > > > we argue, are not a sufficient foundation for the bureaucratic
> literacy
> > > > required to understand public-health messages. In our study, the
> women
> > > able
> > > > to provide the most decontextualized, impersonal definitions of
> common
> > > words
> > > > were also, on average, the most skilled at understanding spoken
> health
> > > > messages, and those with the greatest listening comprehension skills
> > were
> > > > best able to understand printed health information.
> > > >
> > > > ... we argue that the ability to understand public, bureaucratic
> > language
> > > -
> > > > spoken and written - requires an orientation to language emphasized
> in
> > > > schools but not necessarily in other family and community settings.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <5. Women's literacy classes should expand oral language abilities,
> > not
> > > > just reading skills. This point seems relevant to some of Shirley's
> > > remarks
> > > > the other day.>
> > > >
> > > > ... a major goal of women's literacy classes should be to expand oral
> > > > language abilities. Not only will these skills serve as a foundation
> > for
> > > > literacy, but they also will give women greater access to the
> > information
> > > > provided by the increasingly ubiquitous radio and television.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <6. Just as this study relied, in part, on correlating the ability to
> > > > define nouns in decontextualized ways with the ability to interact
> with
> > > > public health systems, the ability to articulate and challenge the
> > > > definitions of words is important in general, including in feminist
> > > > consciousness.>
> > > >
> > > > The act of defining words, however, is also a fundamental and
> powerful
> > > way
> > > > of participating in the public sphere of meaning-making. A formal
> > > definition
> > > > is an assertion that a word has a standardized-or shared-meaning that
> > > > conveys not only one's own experience but also the experience of a
> > > > collective, or an implied "we." Definitions are agreements about what
> > > words
> > > > mean, and those agreements can be challenged. It is through the act
> of
> > > > redefining words that new meanings can be created in the public
> sphere,
> > > and
> > > > social change for women occurs, in part, when they successfully
> > challenge
> > > > the public definitions of words such as "marriage," "motherhood,"
> > "home,"
> > > > "work," "economy," "sexuality," "politics," and "equality." A
> critical
> > > > feminist consciousness requires an ability to understand the way the
> > > world
> > > > is currently defined and an ability to become an active participant
> in
> > > > defining the public world.
> > > >
> > > > *******
> > > > - Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Jun 27, 2010, at 3:10 PM, mike cole wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Attached is a paper on years of schooling and the formality of
> > > definitions
> > > >> given by Mexican women. Part of a much larger set of papers but
> > directly
> > > >> related to earlier paper by Snow and ulvi's dissertation topic. Not
> > sure
> > > >> where/how best to respond to Andy's note because i am unsure if
> people
> > > >> regard it as peripheral or central to Vygotskian and other theories
> of
> > > >> culture and development.
> > > >>
> > > >> I see this "nouns" test as well as the paper with D'Andrade as
> > relevant,
> > > >> but
> > > >> also as leaving plenty of room for a study that uses the "everyday/
> > > >> scientific" distinction and studies it as a function of years of
> > > >> schooling.
> > > >>
> > > >> mike
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 9:02 AM, ulvi icil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I am interested on the effect of schooling on concept formation,
> the
> > > >>> relationswhip between everyday and scientific concetps as a
> candidate
> > > >>> research topic for my master thesis that I will start to work
> October
> > > >>> 2010
> > > >>> onwards !
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Ulvi
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 2010/6/26, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> That article connects to several ongoing threads, Andy. But lets
> see
> > > if
> > > >>>> others are interested before I directly comment.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Instead, I think that the cover of the current issue of the New
> > Yorker
> > > >>>> magazine provides interesting food for thought one concepts and
> > their
> > > >>>> representations. It is accessible from www.newyorker.com. Try to
> > > click
> > > >>>> on
> > > >>>> the cover and than use control+ (on a pc) to get a larger and
> larger
> > > >>>> imaged.
> > > >>>> The different layers of meaning appear to move between the
> > syntagmatic
> > > >>>> and
> > > >>>> paradigmatic dimensions of meaning making. Besides,
> > > >>>> its clever.
> > > >>>> mike
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 6:38 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I just had a read of Mike's 1982 paper with Roy D'Andrade on the
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> influence
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> of schooling on concept formation:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/ap82v4n2.PDF
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Great paper!
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> It occurred to me that Luria is in agreement with many others
> that
> > a
> > > >>>>> hierarchical system of categories, a taxonomy, is the archetype
> of
> > > the
> > > >>>>> "abstract" concept. Luria's conception of how this relates to
> prior
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> forms of
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> concept (affective and concrete) is the main point of interest in
> > the
> > > >>>>> article, but I would like to question whether this taxonomical
> idea
> > > is
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> valid
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> as the archetype of the "true" concept. The article claims that
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> taxonomical
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> practices ("true" or not) are archetypal school practices, and
> this
> > > is
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> an
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> interesting and different question.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> An interesting counterpoint to this is Hegel's classification of
> 3
> > > >>>>> different components which he thinks must *all* be present in the
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> formation
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> of a true concept:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> The subject is (a) ascribed certain qualities; (b) seen as having
> > > >>>>> having
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> a
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> certain place in a system of social practice; and (c) taken under
> > its
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> genus,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> as belonging to a certain living whole.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Further, I think (c) does not actually amount to the kind of
> > Linnaean
> > > >>>>> hierarchical family tree, but could also be interpreted like
> genre
> > > and
> > > >>>>> archetype without the implied underlying totality. Also, there is
> > all
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> too
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> much room for subsuming (c) under (a) as almost all of
> present-day
> > > >>>>> philosophy and natural science are wont to do.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Mike, you have done a lot of work on the role of this
> "taxonomical
> > > >>>>> activity" in and out of school. Davydov on the other hand,
> > emphasises
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> (b) as
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> opposed to (a). It would be interesting to investigate
> > > >>>>> concept-formation
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> on
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> this wider frame.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Andy
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>>>> *Andy Blunden*
> > > >>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/<
> http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/ <http://home.mira.net/~andy/>><
> > > http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/ <http://home.mira.net/~andy/> <
> http://home.mira.net/~andy/<http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/<http://home.mira.net/~andy/>
> >
> > >><
> > > >>>>> http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/ <http://home.mira.net/~andy/> <
> http://home.mira.net/~andy/<http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/<http://home.mira.net/~andy/>
> >
> > >><
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/ <http://home.mira.net/~andy/> <
> http://home.mira.net/~andy/<http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/<http://home.mira.net/~andy/>
> >
> > >>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
> > > >>>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/scss
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>>> xmca mailing list
> > > >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>> xmca mailing list
> > > >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > <Velasco.Schooling.pdf>_______________________________________________
> > > >>
> > > >> xmca mailing list
> > > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Luísa Aires
> > Universidade Aberta/Cetac.Media
> > R.Ameal, nº 752
> > 4200-055 Porto
> > laires@univ-ab.pt
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
>
>
> --
> WORK as:
> Visiting Researcher
> Wits School of Education
> HOME
> 6 Andover Road
> Westdene
> Johannesburg 2092
> 011 673 9265 082 562 1050
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
--
Luísa Aires
Universidade Aberta/Cetac.Media
R.Ameal, nº 752
4200-055 Porto
laires@univ-ab.pt
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca