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Re: [xmca] help: Vygotsky and pedology
Andy, Mike:
Anton is a historian, and a very good one. My stepfather was a good historian too, so I know that good historians are apt to be a little gruff one we get things wrong, and they have occasionally been known to freight historical details with very considerable importance.
I gather that one of the things that offends Anton is that Vladimir Zinchenko is referred to as "Vasya", short for Vasily and not Vladimir. Holowinsky might have been thinking of Davydov, whose name really is Vasily.
Here are some of the things I found that might be wrong in the article on pedology.
p. 123: "parts of his book Thought and Speech were prohibited from publication". Well, the whole thing, actually.
p. 124: There is considerable confusion between "pedagogy" and "pedology". The two things really were quite different, and in fact "pedology" was established partly in reaction to "pedagogy", as a science in its own right. We applied linguists understand this very well; people are always confusing us with linguists, which is a little like confusing a cucumber and a concubine, or a protestant with a prostitute.
p. 126: The last two sentences of the third para on the left amalgamate 1929, when pedology was perfectly legal, and 1934 when it was already banned. Vygotsky's pedological work, including "Pedology of the Adolescent", was published in 1929. "Fascism in Psychoneurology" was, of course, published in 1934, after the capitulation of psychologists like Jaensch, Ach, and Jung to Nazism.
Now what I don't understand is this: in 1934, Vygotsky really did publish a set of lectures called "Fundamentals of Pedology". By then, the struggle against pedology had already been going on for so long that Vygotsky himself had criticized pedology (in Chapter Six of Thinking and Speech). It can't be the usual problem with sonambulent publishers, either, because they're stenographic records of lectures delivered at the Second Moscow Medical Institute that very year. Perhaps he knew he wouldn't be around to face the consequences.
David Kellogg
Seoul National University of Education
--- On Tue, 5/18/10, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [xmca] help: Vygotsky and pedology
To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 6:16 PM
Gentlemen--
The post that Anton pointed us to is nonsense. The article on Pedology is
more interesting, although he does mischaracterize me as THE editor
of Mind in Society. Some interesting refs there. The article was written in
about 1987 at a time when it was not so easy to get straight information
on these matters. The Makarenko stuff was interesting. I didn't know he was
connected with the NKVD (assuming that is true).
Ease up. history is long, life is short.
mike
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> Fair point, Anton. I didn't check it because I didn't feel I qualified as
> someone 'familiar with Vladimir Petrovich Zinchenko', though I did 'know
> about the existence of such person'. I've read some of his work but I know
> nothing about the person beyond that. I have always tended to confuse the
> two Zinchenkos; are they father and son? I have checked it now, of course,
> and from your comment I guess there must be a gross factual error in that
> little paragraph. But I can't tell. I'll have to trust you.
>
> Andy
>
>
> Anton Yasnitsky wrote:
>
>> Andy,
>>
>> I am under the impression you did not check out the link, specifically,
>> the quote in English. If not, please, feel free to do so. Just in case, here
>> is the link again:
>>
>> http://community.livejournal.com/psyhistorik/27712.html
>>
>> Please let us know if you do not believe this example counts as a
>> justification.
>>
>> Anton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 8:12:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] help: Vygotsky and pedology
>>
>> Anton,
>> When political leaders in my country tell you that another person is a
>> fool but don't have time to justify their claim they say: "Trust me!"
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> Anton Yasnitsky wrote:
>>
>>> Here is my first reaction to Eugene's question, the rest will follow when
>>> I find time to fully enjoy the paper in question:
>>>
>>> Below is the link to my favourite example of Holowinsky's scholarship
>>> that can be best appreciated by anybody familiar with Vladimir Petrovich
>>> Zinchenko, or who at least knows about the existence of such person and the
>>> basics of his genealogy:
>>>
>>> http://community.livejournal.com/psyhistorik/27712.html
>>>
>>> Enjoy :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Eugene Matusov <ematusov@udel.edu>
>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>> Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 4:13:32 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] help: Vygotsky and pedology
>>>
>>> Dear Anton-
>>>
>>> Can you elaborate on Holowinsky's points in his article that you view as
>>> wrong, please? And what is your basis for this criticism? I'm asking
>>> these
>>> questions not because I want to challenge your views but because I want
>>> to
>>> learn more about this interesting and potentially influential history and
>>> you are a specilist in this area.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Eugene
>>> PS I was surprised to read in Holowinsky's article about Makarenko's
>>> opposition to pedology. Do you know more about that, by any chance?
>>> ---------------------
>>> Eugene Matusov, Ph.D.
>>> Professor of Education
>>> School of Education
>>> University of Delaware
>>> 16 W Main st.
>>> Newark, DE 19716, USA
>>>
>>> email: ematusov@udel.edu
>>> fax: 1-(302)-831-4110
>>> website: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu
>>> publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm
>>>
>>> Dialogic Pedagogy Forum: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu
>>> ---------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 4:55 PM
>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] help
>>>>
>>>> If I may add a comment, the author, as a rule, presents a lot of
>>>>
>>> ridiculous--to
>>>
>>>> say just "erroneous" would be a gross understatement--stuff in his
>>>>
>>> writings,
>>>
>>>> so I would like to thank Mike for the paper and am anticipating a really
>>>> hilarious reading :)
>>>>
>>>> Anton
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>> From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>> Sent: Sun, May 16, 2010 9:11:14 PM
>>>> Subject: [xmca] help
>>>>
>>>> Hi...
>>>> I need to find the paper "Vygotsky and the History of Pedology" of Ivan
>>>> Z.
>>>> Holowinsky. (School Psychology International, v. 9, 1988) Can anyone
>>>> help
>>>> me?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Joao Martins
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>+61 3 9380 9435 Skype andy.blunden
> An Interdisciplinary Theory of Activity: http://www.brill.nl/scss
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