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Re: [xmca] fiction as reality
I should also add that even though I must view it with subtitles I love
hearing the lyrical swedish dialogue. I agree the 312 minute version is
the best.
eric
Leif Strandberg <leifstrandberg.ab@telia.com>
Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
01/06/2010 01:08 PM
Please respond to "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
cc:
Subject: Re: [xmca] fiction as reality
Nice to hear
that old Ingmar Bergman is still alive
yes, Fanny and Alexander is a great film - spec. the looong version
(the TV-version)
HNY
to all
from Sweden
-30 F
burr
Leif
6 jan 2010 kl. 19.58 skrev ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org:
> I believe I have mentioned this before but Bergman's film Fanny and
> Alexander is probably the greatest study of humanity ever put to film.
>
> here is a brief synopsis:
>
> http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041205/
> REVIEWS08/412050302/1023
>
> perhaps it my swedish heritage but I feel greatly moved everytime i
> view
> the film
>
> eric
>
>
>
>
> "Michael Glassman" <MGlassman@ehe.osu.edu>
> Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> 01/01/2010 04:27 PM
> Please respond to "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>
>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> cc:
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Fwd: Happy 2010 to all of you....
>
>
> One thing we get with fiction that we don't get with actual (I am
> struggling to come up with a term because it seems real is too
> close to
> the philosophical position of realism) is that fiction is certain
> while
> actual processes are by nature - or through nature - indefinite. I
> took
> this to be one of Eco's major points. Well drawn fictional
> charcaters are
> more attractive to us, more real to us (and this time I do accept the
> realist perspective) because we are certain about what happens to
> them. I
> thought Eco's notion of who we understand more as committing
> suicide the
> literary character or Hitler. Hitler existed but we lack a
> certainty of
> what actually happened to him, so this makes an Anna Karenina or a
> Madame
> Bovary more of a presence in our lives - to the point where when Woody
> Allen recreates Madame Bovary in a comic piece we continue to feel
> we know
> her. I thought it was really interesting when he compared the actual
> Napoleon with Napoleon as a fictional character. It is an interesting
> perspective that I hadn't thought of before. There's some Freud
> somewhere
> in there I think.
>
> Michael
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Larry Purss
> Sent: Fri 1/1/2010 4:48 PM
> To: lchcmike@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Fwd: Happy 2010 to all of you....
>
>
>
> Happy New Year everyone
>
> Well Mike I'm glad we settled the ongoing debate on what is the
> meaning of
> "consciousness" and also came to a consensus on the role of
> "emotion" in
> the human sciences because the discussion between Eco and Valsiner
> opens
> up a line of inquiry that may generate a topic worthy of a new decade
> The question
>
> "What is the ontological status of FICTION and what is REAL."
>
> I can't say that I have a firm position on how to answer this
> question but
> I do see that it is a theme that runs through a lot of the CHAT
> conversations. The ontological and social status of the REIFICATION of
> concepts such as "capitalism" as "fictional" constructs or "real"
> social
> "facts".
> is part of this discussion.
>
> The description of "individualistic" vs "collectivistic" tendencies in
> infant development and classroom practices speaks to the "fictional"
> abstract generalizing group processes.
> When we describe particular practices or events and look for larger
> patterns in the culture we are engaging in constructing fictional
> narratives to explain our conduct.
> As Jaan Valsiner states, "through all these meaning-making moves we
> are
> creating FICTIONS-IN-THE-REAL." (page 111) As Valsiner summarizes
> in his
> article Umberrto Uco's article is a construction of "eloquent
> fictions-
> about others and about himself - are a testimony to the restless
> eagerness
> of the inquisitive human minds who create beautiful and horrifying
> fictional worlds - AND INHABIT THEM" (page 111)
> As both Eco and Valsiner agree these fictions do not have ontological
> status but are "real" as social facts which are recognized as having a
> shared reality and real consequences in the world.
> Uco points out that for an athiest every supernatural object is
> fictional
> because inaccessible to our senses whereas for a believer these
> supernatural objects are real. (they rely on two different
> ontologies).
> However how "real" is this dividing boundary between believers and
> athiests?
> Valsiner points out the processes in the social sciences have
> parallels to
> true believers. Famous thinkers search for understandings as tentative
> FALLIBLE efforts usually phrased in vague terms. Then social
> scientists
> who follow the famous thinkers read the fallible texts and search for
> "truths" AS IF these words are final and immutable. The famous social
> scientists through this literary process of interpretation and
> RE-interpretation of their works are turned into FICTIONAL
> CHARACTERS by
> the fame attributed to them and the recognition of "the truths of the
> grand masters. In this way their ideas get fixed in a way
> analogous to
> the fixation of Hamlet or Jesus in our collective memory.
> Going to university and spending years learning a tradition (such as
> communication studies)is one of the central ways to create meaning and
> find a "calling" within university scholarship. Calling it a fictional
> process in no way negates the power of this way to inhabit a
> disciplinary
> structure.
> This "perspectival realism" allows one to envision an open space
> that sees
> the parallels between the construction of ideals in religious and
> scientific and humanistic endeavors. In all these frames one can
> take a
> fundamentalist stance or a stance of fallibility and inquiry.
> Gadamer seems to have a lot to add to this topic but I don't feel
> qualified to say much except that his insights seem very relevant
> to this
> topic. However his metaphor of "horizon of understanding" does
> capture
> the recognition that one inhabits particular discourses (traditions or
> canons) which are passed on through education.
>
> A final thought on the role of "agency" in this topic. Can one choose
> which fiction to inhabit as a personal choice or is one's fictional
> narrative determined by social circumstances. My bias is to
> suggest that
> agency is a "capacity" and not innate. Agency is also a fictional
> construct which one can inhabit WHEN self is first recognized by (m)
> other.
> (This goes back to Mead and the social self).
>
> This perspective on fiction challenges the term "mere fiction" as a
> term
> of dismissal to negate another's perspective. However we are
> still left
> with the ethical and moral response-ability to act and do we decide
> how to
> act in private reverie or in conversation with others? The last
> caution I
> suggest is that many people view the construction of fiction as a
> private
> act and we must bring back the recognition that constructing fictional
> narratives are discourses that we share.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:51 am
> Subject: [xmca] Fwd: Happy 2010 to all of you....
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>
>> The two attached papers are part of dialogue between Jaan
>> Valsiner and
>> Umberto Eco that appear to be relevant to current
>> xmca discussions.
>>
>> F the Y of them what wants the I
>> mike
>>
>>
>>
>> **
>>
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