Re: [xmca] Communication/social relations/obshenie

[Helen Grimmett <helen.grimmett@education.monash.edu.au>]

Absolutely agreed! But I think the type of communication that goes on in
most schools (at least the ones I've been in) between teachers and
students is way different to the type of social communication being
advocated by the Golden Key schools. I think part of the problem is that
obshchenie is probably ineffable as well as untranslatable!

Thanks,
Helen

----- Original Message -----
From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:24 am
Subject: Re: [xmca] Communication/social relations/obshenie
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>

> obuchenie without obshchenie is a little difficult to imagine, helen.
> communication devoid of affect seems to offer a similar set of 
> problems.
> Again, in every case of "definition" we have (a largely unexplicated,
> because you can never say everything about anything) a large,
> pre-supposed set of theoretical assumptions about the processes being
> defined.
> 
> What makes discussion of these cases always (potentially) useful
> is that different ways of defining/interpreting provide glimpses of 
> thetheoretical field which provides the lens through which we and our
> interlocutors are interpreting/delimiting the processes of 
> (potentially!)common interest.
> 
> mike
> (PS-- My spelling and typing are no better in transliterated 
> Russian than in
> English)  :-((
> 
> 
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Helen Grimmett <
> helen.grimmett@education.monash.edu.au> wrote:
> 
> > A group from my university attended the Vygotsky/Golden Key Summer
> > School earlier in the year and returned home all talking about the
> > importance of obshchenie (this is the spelling we have been using 
> -
> > funny that it is a cross between Mike and Katrina's). While they 
> said> that Elena Kravtsova translated it as 'social communication' 
> she also
> > made it clear that this was not really an adequate translation for
> > capturing the true expansive meaning of the word.
> >
> > In reference to my earlier message, pasted below, I'm wondering 
> whether> it is actually 'obshchenie' that is the unique property of 
> 'obuchenie'> (teaching/learning)? - i.e. it is all about the 
> special social/emotional
> > relationships between and among teachers and learners in the joint
> > activity of obuchenie that make the difference.
> >
> > Perhaps some Russian speakers can help further?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Helen.
> >
> > Earlier message: Helen wrote....
> > I am currently attempting to use obuchenie as a central
> > concept in my PhD research, arguing that perhaps using a 'new' 
> word with
> > teachers makes it easier for them to think about teaching and 
> learning> in a new way (as a conjoint practice that both teachers 
> and learners
> > engage in together).
> >
> > I have argued that it is difficult to assign new 
> conceptualisations to
> > existing terms we have traditionally conceptualised in different 
> ways> and that perhaps using teaching/learning still provides an 
> image of
> > simply bringing together the two contradictory practices of 
> teaching and
> > learning (as understood in their old way) rather than helping 
> teachers> think about it in a new way as a dialectical unity which 
> has its own
> > unique properties (more than the sum of its parts).
> >
> > I then go on in my proposal for confirmation of candidature paper to
> > spend nearly 6000 words trying to explain what the unique 
> properties of
> > obuchenie are. In a nutshell I talk about the ZPD (although 
> taking a
> > holistic approach to development recognising the importance of the
> > affective dimension alongside the more typical cognitive approach);
> > intersubjectivity and perezhivanie; authentic meaning and motives 
> for> participating in the activity; and recognising that all of 
> this occurs
> > within a particular cultural-historical context that both 
> determines and
> > is determined by the interactions of the participants.
> >
> > I would be interested to hear what others think are the unique 
> qualities> of obuchenie and why/whether translations as even 
> teaching/learning or
> > teaching-learning may be inadequate for generating new 
> understandings> amongst teachers.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Katarina Rodina <katja@student.uv.uio.no>
> > Date: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:30 am
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Communication/social relations/obshenie
> > To: lchcmike@gmail.com, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> > <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > > The problem with terminology is a tricky one. The understanding of
> > > terminology in Russian Psychology as "communication", "social
> > > interaction"and "Obchenie" is far from being straightforward.
> > >
> > > I've tried to investigate the problem of  communication 
> (obchenie) in
> > > Vygotsky's, Leontiev's and so-called neo-Vygotskian research (see
> > > belowRodina (2006)) .
> > >
> > > The problem of communication as a social relation (rus. obchenie,
> > > German"Verkehr") is highlighted in the works of A.N. Leontiev,
> > > Zaporozhets and
> > > M. Lisina, i.e. the concept of early ontogeny of communication
> > > (obchenie)as a communicative activity (not speech activity as an
> > > object of study as
> > > in psycholinguistics). Lisina's theory of early emotional
> > > communication/obchenia as a Leading Acitivity has much in 
> common with
> > > Trevarthen's concept of early inter-subjective communication and
> > > socio-emotional development in early ontogeny. Bodrova & Leong
> > > (1996: 51)
> > > could also be mentioned as a contemporary variant of Elkonin's and
> > > Lisina's psychological concept of early emotional
> > > communication/obcheniawith Tronick`s (1989) "interactional 
> synchrony".> >
> > > Lisina's understanding of communication/obchenia as a 
> psychological> > category was based on Vygotsky's cultural-
> historical theory of
> > > developmentof HMF and Leontiev's activity theory (see for example
> > > Lisina, M. (1985)
> > > Child-Adults-Peers: Patterns of Communication. Progress 
> Publishers;> > Karpov,Y.(2005). The Neo-Vygotskian Approach to 
> Child Development.
> > > Cambridge University Press; Bodrova, E. & Leong, B.(1996). 
> Tools of
> > > theMind: The Vygotskian Approach to Early Childhood Education.
> > > Prentice-Hall,
> > > Inc., pp. 50-55; Rodina, K. (2006).The Neo-Vygotskian Approach to
> > > EarlyCommunication: A Cultural-Historical and Activity based
> > > Concept of
> > > Ontogeny. Nordic Psychology,Vol.58, No.4, 331-354).
> > >
> > > Katarina
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, November 21, 2009 17:22, mike cole wrote:
> > > > " Since communication is the precise measure of the 
> possibility of
> > > social
> > > > organization, of good understanding among men (sic), relations
> > > that are
> > > beyond its range are not truly social..
> > > > GH Cooley, 1894.
> > > >
> > > > for Cooley, like Pierce, "mind is made concrete in culture."
> > > >
> > > > ---------------
> > > > Cooley's first book: The theory of transportation. No 
> accident that.
> > > >
> > > > mike
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Katarina A. Rodina
> > > Research Fellow (PhD)/Logoped,MNLL
> > > Department of Special Needs Education,
> > > University of Oslo, P.O.Box 1140 Blindern,
> > > NO-0318 Oslo, Norway
> > > Phone: +47 41 108 408/Fax:  +47 22 85 80 21
> > > E-mail: katarina.rodina@isp.uio.no
> > > http://staffdirectory.uv.uio.no/singleview/v1/index.php?user=katja
> > > http://katarinarodina.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > > Head of Russo-Norwegian Academic Relations,
> > > The Vygotsky Institute of Psychology/RSUH
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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