Re: [xmca] guess who

[Larry Purss <lpurss@shaw.ca>]

Mike 
thanks for responding.
Just google "Boston Change Process Study Group". They have an elaborate website with all the articles freely available to download and also articles responding to their articles. They also are so committed to seeing ideas as emerging from an intersubjective space that they don't publish their articles by author. They sign off as the Boston Change Process Study Group".

I do believe that Daniel Stern's book "The Present Moment in Psychotherapy and Everyday Life is relevant in the stream of thought on self as emerging from intersubjective contexts.  Andy points out they don't talk about mediation and artifacts and material culture as foreground but they do emphasize
context and culture or Experience in Dewey's sense.
I am a novice in understanding Habermas but I think he talks about conversation as having 3 validity claims or standpoints:  The intersubjective, the subjective, and the objective. The conversation's meaning can be received from any of these positions and all 3 positions are valid claims.  The Boston Change Process group is elaborating the subjective standpoint as emerging from intersubjective contexts.

They see intersubjectivity as a motivational system separate from the attachment system. Attachment is more biological and intersubjectivity is a psychological need or desire to be recognized.  They foreground  the "present moment" as the location of change (the here and now). >From this perspective Mead's I-me" dialectic is a moment to moment dynamic process. The moment the I takes a position (becomes consious), it becomes a me. Me is always a construction in the past tense. There are multiple me's that emerge in intersubjective relations and become coded or registered.  Therefore Mead's theory could be stated as "I-me's" dialectic.  There are also multiple "generalized others" as various categories of sameness or objectivity  However subjectivity and objectivity (artifacts and norms (morals) emerge from real moment to moment intersujective communication (activity) in the HERE AND NOW

Daniel Stern in his book has a chapter where he details how he can explore with a client a single act of the present moment (2 to 10 seconds) and Stern's elaborating  that moment can take over an hour.
 I believe that the Boston Change Process Study Group can deepen the notions of the ZPD, scaffolding, etc. for education as it highlights how central  "implicit ways of knowing" are to facilitate explicit communication. Stern does not question explicit knowing but wants to foreground the implicit as having been undertheorized and needing to be engaged.
I as a counsellor in elementary schools have been helped to see that every moment is an ethical and moral moment and norms are foundation to being human.

I may be mixing theories and constructs, and reifying processes as structures. I don't have a background in philosophy and therefore may be making many "category errors" but these ideas I'm discussing are helping to guide me as I act in the world  day to day, moment to moment, within intersubjective contexts.  This is how we change the world.

Larry





 
 





----- Original Message -----
From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009 8:00 am
Subject: Re: [xmca] guess who
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>

> Very relevant line of work to hightlight. Larry. In 1977 in the 
> series on
> the developming child, Stern wrote a little book called "The First
> Relationship."
> A very thoughtful guy always worth reading.
> 
> Is there a web page for the Change Process group. Seems kinda 
> relevant to
> understanding culturally mediated process of human development.
> 
> mike
> 
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 10:10 PM, Larry Purss 
> <lpurss@shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
> > The topic of the social construction and development of the 
> self  in Mead
> > and the parallels with cultural historical theories of 
> intersubjectivity is
> > fascinating.  I have just finished reading "Daniel 
> Stern's book "The Present
> > Moment in Psychotherapy and Everyday Life" He is a member of 
> the "Boston
> > Change Process Study Group" which is exploring the potential 
> for change
> > enacted in the moment to moment (2 to 10 second) 
> intersubjective spaces
> > created in enactements.  This work is embedded in the 
> larger focus on
> > intersubjectivity being elaborated within  "relational 
> psychoanalysis". One
> > of the historical roots of this approach comes from Harry 
> Stack Sullivan
> >  and "interpersonal psychoanalysis"  Sullivan's work 
> was a conversation
> > between Mead's theory of the relational self and 
> psychoanalysis. This
> > conversation is today transforming all branches of 
> psychoanalytic theory and
> > practice and there are many books and journal articles 
> focusing on
> > "intersubjectivity" and the quality of "mutual" recognition to 
> facilitate> change. This perspective can be applied to learning 
> and developmental theory
> > to emphasize Mead's project of the social self.
> > I work in school systems and try to use this 
> intersubjective  relational
> > lens to deepen my understanding of  "mediated learning" 
> as a process of
> > "implicit relational knowing" (see Daniel Stern)  as well 
> as explicit
> > relational knowing and practices.  Intersubjectivity as 
> experienced in the
> > moment to moment enactments  that are elaborated within 
> the interactions of
> > mediated learning are grounded in affective attunement as 
> foundational to
> > cognitive learning.
> > I hesitate to bring  "psychoanalytic" models to this 
> website because of the
> > reaction to traditional Freudian models of reified psychic 
> structure and all
> > that baggage.  However I happen to be intrigued by both 
> "mediated learning"
> > and "intersubjectivity" as ways to look at the micro units of 
> analysis.> As an aside Daniel Stern was one of the researches, 
> with Jerome Bruner, and
> > others who studied "baby talk" and the development of language 
> in moment to
> > moment transactions. Twenty years later Daniel Stern and the 
> Boston Change
> > Process Study Group are still working at this micro unit of 
> the present
> > moment and the creation of intersubjective spaces.
> > Stern (p.43 "The Present Moment") quoted William James as he 
> described the
> > stream of consciousness as like a bird's life made up of an 
> alteration of
> > flights and perchings. Stern's book elaborates the present 
> moments are like
> > the  perchings. The flights are the spaces between 
> moments of consciousness.
> > These "flights" are inaccesible and ungraspable. 
> "Consciousness is thus free
> > to switch focus from one present moment to the next, and the 
> sense of the
> > self as experiencer is never felt to be interrupted, even 
> though the
> > perchings are discontinuous. These present moments are the 
> stuff of
> > subjectivity during ordianary mental states" (p.43)
> > Mediated learning in the ZPD can be enriched by exploring 
> Mead's and
> > Stern's and other scholars who are exploring intersubjectivity 
> and the
> > development of the self.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tony Whitson <twhitson@UDel.Edu>
> > Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009 7:12 pm
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] guess who
> > To: lchcmike@gmail.com, "eXtended Mind, Culture,   
> Activity" <
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Cc: Ben DeVane <ben.devane@gmail.com>
> >
> > > Mead was also my first guess (and it really was a guess, 
> since I
> > > haven't
> > > actually read Mead)
> > >
> > > But I thought the more interesting thing about the provocation
> > > is that
> > > even though it seemed like exactly what I would expect from
> > > Mead, I could
> > > not be certain, because there are a number of others we are
> > > interested in
> > > who could just as well have said the same. That's what I find
> > > most
> > > interesting in this.
> > >
> > > And I do think this is part of Hegel's legacy, such that even
> > > Lacan could
> > > have said much the same as this, although with somewhat
> > > differing
> > > implications.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, mike cole wrote:
> > >
> > > > Got it first try. Mead got his PhD with Dilthey. My own guess
> > > is that this
> > > > goes back to at least Hegel, but others would know better.
> > > >
> > > > (Dishes done, snuck away)
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Ben DeVane
> > > <ben.devane@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We just got done reading Mead in our pragmatism reading 
> group here,
> > > >> and it sounds very Meadish (Vygotsky crossed with Dewey), so
> > > that's my
> > > >> guess. Honest I didn't look it up on Google.
> > > >>
> > > >> I really enjoyed the Holland & Lachicotte, and Edwards
> > > chapters on the
> > > >> parallels between Mead and Vygotsky in the Cambridge
> > > handbook. Highly
> > > >> recommended for anyone unfamiliar with Mead's work.
> > > >>
> > > >> -Ben
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 8:09 PM, mike cole
> > > <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> In preparing for class just now i fell across this sentence.
> > > Obvious who
> > > >>> wrote it without looking it up on google?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> “*The self is something which has a development*, it is not
> > > initially>> there
> > > >>> at birth, but arises in the process of social experiences
> > > and activity,
> > > >> that
> > > >>> is, develops in the given individual as a result of his
> > > relations to that
> > > >>> process as a whole and to other individuals within that 
> process”> > >>>
> > > >>> My own relations are saying get the hell off the computer,
> > > the doorbell
> > > >> is
> > > >>> ringing and the goblins are on the move. So off i go.
> > > >>> mike
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> xmca mailing list
> > > >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> ***********************
> > > >> Ben DeVane
> > > >> Ph.D Candidate
> > > >> Games+Learning+Society Research Group
> > > >> University of Wisconsin-Madison
> > > >> ***********************
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > >
> > > Tony Whitson
> > > UD School of Education
> > > NEWARK  DE  19716
> > >
> > > twhitson@udel.edu
> > > _______________________________
> > >
> > > "those who fail to reread
> > >   are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> > 
> >                    -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
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