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Re: [xmca] Language, meaning and culture.

Michael,
By way of explanation: A scream of distress is distressful: A soothing croon is soothing.: A lullaby helps to calm a child: A cry or alarm is alarming. Why and how is this phenomena what it is? How does a vibrational pattern sent out by one organism create a reaction in another? What is an emotional condition? Could it be a pattern of energy? Can the vibrational signature of an emotional state cause an organism to assume that emotional state when moved according to that pattern? If there are two conga drums in the same room and someone slaps the head of one of the drums, another person with their finger tips lightly touching the head of the other drum can feel that drumhead move in reaction to the pressure waves sent out by the struck drum. The struck drum drives the driven drum. The driven drum does not interpret or "understand" the "meaning" of the movement imparted upon it by the movement of the struck drum in order to be moved by it. It simply assumes a state, a vibrational condition, analogous to that of the driving drum. It is this exact way that vocal sounds communicate emotional states among humans. Our language is based upon this elemental, primal process, just as our very life is based upon the chemistry of d.n.a. replication. When we consider questions about language, we need to remember its fundamental basis. By using our bodies' resonant states to refer to things, we create in our minds, a sense of the affects on us, (the meanings of), the things that make up our world. If you feel willing and ready, I can email youall several pages of writings on this subject. It is important to me because I see that our behavior is, as a mass, determined by our language through the culture which it produces. 

		Joseph Gilbert


On Aug 3, 2009, at 12:42 PM, michael wrote:


Joseph,

Talking about sympathetic resonance, when my wife and I hear a student
and/or a poor professional singer singing "in his/her throat" at a singing recital, within 10 minutes we both feel some tension in our throats. Of course, my wife and I are professional voice teachers and vocal coaches 
(among many other things). So, when we hear other people sing, we
"understand" (using your expression) their voices through sympathetic
resonance.

However, my questions are:
1. Why many other people don't experience the same discomfort while
listening to the same "poor" singers?
2. Why neither of us (my wife and/or I) feels the same or similar discomfort when listening to, let's say, Louis Armstrong's raspy and throaty voice? 

Michael


Michael G. Levykh, Ph.D.
-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca- bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On 
Behalf Of Joseph Gilbert
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:35 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] Language, meaning and culture.

Michael,
Any and all vocal sounds emanate from and express states of the
organism. Perhaps this analogy may help to clarify.         If two
pianos are placed close to each other and the sustain pedal of one is
held down while a chord is struck and held on the other, the strings
on the unstruck piano that correspond to the ones that were struck on
the struck piano will begin vibrating. Like structures cause each
other to vibrate when either of them vibrates. They resonate with
each other. This is the same principle that radio tuners work by.
When we tune a radio to resonate at a certain frequency, it will
receive signals at that frequency. When one human vibrates, others in
the vicinity are caused to vibrate in sympathy. We intuitively
"understand" facial expressions and general body language involving
posture and motion. We understand vocal utterances in the same way,
simply by experiencing the affect of them on us.

		Joseph Gilbert

On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:48 AM, michael wrote:


Hi Joseph,

In your phrase "We feel the affects of our vocal sounds internally,
intuitively, intimately and with consistency..." what do you mean
by vocal
sounds? Are you talking about prosody and intonation of a meaningful
discourse, or some separate vocal sounds being detached from a bigger
(social, cultural, historical) discourse?

Michael G. Levykh, Ph.D.

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
Behalf Of Joseph Gilbert
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:30 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] Language, meaning and culture.

Ivan,
The culture is established by all the talking people. What percentage
of the population are deaf? A relatively very small number. It seems,
they probably take their lead from the group as a whole.   Thanks for
replying. If you want, I'll send more.

		Joseph Gilbert


On Aug 2, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Ivan Rosero wrote:


Hello Joseph,
I'm trying to follow what you are saying.  How do deaf individuals
fit into
the ideas you're presenting?

Ivan



On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Joseph Gilbert
<joeg4us@roadrunner.com>wrote:


Andy, Thanks for replying.

It is my understanding that the doctrine among linguists is that
since
different words are used to refer to the same things in different
languages,
there must be no absolute, universal relationship between the
sounds of
words and their "meaning", that meaning being the things to which
they
refer. Therefore, linguists generally hold that the relationship
between
sound and meaning is "arbitrary". If we look at relationship
between sound
and internal emotive state, a new panorama opens up and we see
that there is
a direct and deep relationship between sound a meaning, that
meaning being
the emotive states that vocal sounds emanate from and create. That
we are
affected by the sounds we vocally produce provides us with the raw
material
for a system of assigning meaning to things simply by naming them.
We have
nothing other than the affects on us of our words with which to
collectively
ascertain the affects on us of the things that make up our world.
We feel
the affects of our vocal sounds internally, intuitively,
intimately and with
consistency, and all of us who speak the same language share the
same basic
perception of how we are affected by the things of our world. We
process
this basic consensus world view through the lens of our own unique
self
images.
       One can sense the affect of any vocal sound on one by
vocalizing
that sound repeatedly while sensing what emotive state/feeling
state that
sounds stimulates/suggests. Try the sound of the letter, "R",
"rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr". Or the sound of the letter, "M",
"mmmmmmmmmmmm".  Do
these sounds conjure up/ suggest any particular state of being?
Try the "A"
sound and the the "D" sound. I went through the alphabet, from a
to z when I
first discovered this phenomena and is appeared to me that the
sequence of
sounds represented by our phonetic alphabet tells a story. I'd
like to know
if you discern a story in that sequence. If so, a story of what?
       It may be helpful to note that before the progenitors of we
humans
used vocal sounds as words to refer to things outside of
ourselves, we used
them to convey emotional states to one another as other social and
somewhat
social species do.

               Joseph Gilbert



On Aug 2, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:

 Joseph, welcome to xmca.


I am no linguist Joseph, but I gathered from reading Saussure that
linguists in his day (100 years ago) did "look for relationships
between
sounds and things" because he argued against that idea. But
surely, no
linguist has looked at it that way in recent times. Who do you
have in mind?
And surely the idea of sounds relating to emotive states is more
relevant to
the animal kingdom than culture. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Andy

Joseph Gilbert wrote:


   Is our intellectual activity driven by a quest for answers to
specific
questions, or is it more like a game or sport we engage in for
the sake of
participating in society? What questions do we ask?    I wanted
to know why
people behave destructively, as they do. I allowed that question
to exist
for many years until the answer became clear. It related to
culture.
   When we use words, we are making a statement about whatever
things we
name. By referring to things vocally, we are, virtually,
informing ourselves
of the affect/meaning of those things. The sounds we utter
correlate to
emotive states, which we experience subliminally. Consequently,
we associate
those emotive-feeling states with the things to which the sounds
refer.
   Linguists have been looking for relationships between the
sounds of
words and the things to which they refer, and have been, for the
most part,
frustrated by that search. Vocal sounds relate primarily to
emotive-feeling
states, and only secondarily to the things to which our words
refer. Are we
able to discover to what emotive states each of our vocal sounds
refer?
   If we would change our human behavior, which is often
misidentified as
"human nature",  we must address the cultural values, the
unquestioned
givens by which we perceive our world. These givens, these
values, our
culture, is a result of our language.
   I would like to share more of this with youall if you want to
know
more.
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