Re: [xmca] The theoretical reason of the "ban" on Vygotsky

[ulvi icil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>]

Thanks Mike.

I hope I did not cause any misunderstanding about your comment, anyway...I
am a new comer for xmca, my apologizes !



On 17/02/2009, Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ulvi--
>
> To clarify my comment about dissident status in the 1990's. I was
> particularly
> talking about the group of scholars who continued to support the
> Meshcheryakov work which in the 1970's was a post child, literally, for
> the glories of Soviet psychology and by the 1990's had become a serious
> source of disagreement that put Davydov, Ilenynkov, and others who
> continued
> to support this "utopian" experiment into political disrepute.
>
> Others were not centrally involved in support of the kids of Zagorsk and
> whatever their inclinations were not what I was referring to. Sorry to be
> unclear, but a quick email to one person may not prosper when reduced
> and moved into larger context (besides, I might have been full of bs to
> begin wtih!)
> mike
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:16 AM, ulvi icil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you Steve.
> > Even though, I do not share some of the ideas in this quotation, it helps
> > to
> > have an insight into that period.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 17/02/2009, Steve Gabosch <stevegabosch@me.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > [The lengthy passage below is quoted from pg 17-19 of _Vygotsky Today:
> On
> > > the Verge of Non-Classical Psychology_, by Alexander Asmolov, 1998,
> Nova
> > > Science Publishers.  I am just now reading this book and am struck by
> its
> > > insights and eloquence.  Asmolov's reflections on some of the excellent
> > > questions Ulvil poses about the 1930's seem like a good way to kick off
> > that
> > > discussion.  He explains his reasoning for concluding that "The program
> > of
> > > cultural-historical psychology clearly diverged then with the program
> of
> > > building a totalitarian socialism."  Btw, AA includes an excerpt from a
> > > private letter by Vygotsky that some might find interesting.  - Steve]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [From Vygotsky Today, 1998, by A Asmolov:]
> > >
> > > For D.B. Elkonin, L.S. Vygotsky's transition from an interpretation of
> > > social environment as "factor" to the understanding of the "social as
> the
> > > "*source*" of personality development symbolizes the beginning of the
> > > *nonclassical psychology of consciousness*.
> > >
> > > And it is the strength of L.S. Vygotsky's cultural-historical
> psychology
> > > rather than its weakness that this theory is often perceived as closer
> by
> > > spirit to art than to psychology based on classical rational thinking.
> > >
> > >
> > > The secret of L.S. Vygotsky's contemporaneity in the history of science
> > was
> > > nearly found by S. Toulmin, A. Puzyrei, A. Kozulin who, while speaking
> > about
> > > "the phenomenon of Vygotsky" as a riddle of twentieth century, come
> very
> > > close to the solution in their characteristics of L.S. Vygotsky. S.
> Freud
> > > taught that metaphors have hidden meaning. These authors compared
> > Vygotsky
> > > with Mozart, and his fate with the fates of literary characters by
> > > M.Cervantes, T. Mann, H. Hesse and B. Pasternak, thus presenting a key
> to
> > > the understanding of the "phenomenon of Vygotsky" and his special path
> in
> > > science. Vygotsky always, even when his texts were clothed in
> > behavioristic
> > > or reflexological scientific terminology, maintained the profound
> > position
> > > of Master, genuine artist concerned with the construction of cultural
> > > concrete human psychology. Cultural-historical psychology thus became a
> > > product of a new culture of understanding the human being, generated in
> > the
> > > creative workshops of L.S. Vygotsky and his companions. In terms of the
> > > poetic typology of Osip Mandelshtam, so much appreciated by Vygotsky
> > > himself, one can say that Vygotsky was the "meaning-seeker" rather than
> > > "rational formalist".
> > >
> > >
> > > It is true, that the ideas of Vygotsky's school have been later put, as
> > > some philosophers note, into anabiosis for years. But this was so not
> at
> > all
> > > because these ideas dealt with the spheres of logic, philosophy or
> > > culturology, and psychologists had not understood their significance.
> The
> > > cause of the delay of the development ofcultural-historical theory, its
> > > slowing down and dividing into many outflows from the main channel,
> that
> > > sometimes seem not connected to each other, lays in the social history
> of
> > > society rather than in science itself.
> > >
> > >
> > > In order to understand the social biography of cultural-historical
> > > psychology, it is necessary first of all to place the mosaic of
> cultures
> > > through human history at two poles - the pole of *usefulness* and the
> > pole
> > > of *dignity*.  *In the culture of usefulness* the idea that the
> universe
> > is
> > > like a huge clock started by a wise watchmaker prevails.  Everything is
> > > measured, predictable and subordinated to the order of social
> activities
> > > given once and forever. In fiction such a rational social world was
> > > precisely depicted in the utopias "We" by E. Zamyatin and "1984" by G.
> > > Orwell. But, as was sung in a Soviet song "we're born to make a tale
> come
> > > true". Utopias of E. Zamyatin and G. Orwell have come true, become
> > embodied
> > > in the impersonal culture of usefulness. Any concrete human psychology
> to
> > be
> > > sure, humanistic cultural-historical psychology was alien to the
> essence
> > of
> > > this culture. By the fact of their existence they threatened the
> > foundations
> > > of this culture and thereby were dangerous and excessive for it.
> > >
> > >
> > > The culture of usefulness is "equipped" with the sort of ideological
> > > filters which sensitively determine which "human image" has a right to
> > exist
> > > in mentality and society, be a subject of scientific research. The
> image
> > of
> > > "marionette person", "behavioral robot", even if it was not realized by
> > > researchers, was mostly justified by works in the field of conditional
> > > reflexes, reflexology and reactology. It was just this image of
> > > "reflexological robot" that was finally demanded by the
> > > command-administrative system of totalitarian socialism.
> > >
> > >
> > > In the 1930's a shadow of the totalitarian socialist culture of
> > usefulness
> > > slowly but consistently crawled into genetics, the philosophy of the
> > > noosphere and pedagogy.  Alongside with genetics and philosophy
> preaching
> > > the "principle of solidarity", even human science was ostracized.
> > >
> > >
> > > Vygotsky's school of cultural-historical psychology had been rapidly
> > > forming in those years as practical developmental psychology, the basis
> > of
> > > pedology - science of child development and education. But the
> > > command-administrative system built in 1930s did not need psychological
> > > research for the development of individuality, assessment of individual
> > > abilities in children. It was a time when in the atmosphere of total
> > > unification barrack-like pedagogy began to affirm.  The program of
> > > cultural-historical psychology clearly diverged then with the program
> of
> > > building a totalitarian socialism.
> > >
> > >
> > > The culture of usefulness claimed to have the exclusive right to decide
> > > where a person should go, where to be, what to think about. A sharp
> > contrast
> > > to the imperatives of culture of usefulness were the letters written by
> > L.S.
> > > Vygotsky in 1930 and 1931: "Every person must know where he/she is. You
> > and
> > > me - we also know it and must stand firmly. Therefore the result: you,
> > > rather than someone else, should write about the reaction of choice,
> this
> > > chapter about the developing human freedom from external constraints of
> > > things and their will ... ". " ...It is impossible to live without
> > > conceiving life spiritually. Without philosophy (own, personal, living)
> > > there may be nihilism, cynicism, suicide, but not life. But everybody
> has
> > > one's own philosophy. It is necessary to grow it in oneself, because it
> > > supports life in us .... What can shake a person seeking truth? How
> much
> > > inner light, heat, support is in this seeking and striving! And the
> most
> > > important is the life itself - sky, sun, love, people, suffering. This
> is
> > > real, not just words. This is genuine. This is interwoven in life.
> Crises
> > > are not temporary states, but a path of inner life.  When we pass from
> > > systems to fates fates.... birth and death of systems, we will see this
> > > ourselves". ("It is impossible to live not conceiving life
> spiritually":
> > > L.S. Vygotsky's letters to his disciples and colleagues. Published by A
> > > Puzyrei, Znanie - Sila, 1990, N 7, p. 93-94). To comment on these
> lines,
> > > their amazing irrelevance and absurdity in 1930's, would be like
> > retelling
> > > poetry in prose. This is enough to feel the drama of both L.S.
> Vygotsky's
> > > fate and the fate of a whole program of cultural-historical psychology.
> > >
> > >
> > > *The culture of usefulness does not need people and sciences oriented
> to
> > > personal fate, to that what underlies each person - capacity to change,
> > > variability, unpredictability. Such sciences, be it Vygotsky's
> > > cultural-historical psychology, Vernadsky's noosphere or Vavilov's
> > genetics,
> > > are dangerous for the totalitarian system, because they assert the
> right
> > for
> > > unpredictability, variability in the society.*  By that, they call into
> > > question the basic model of a transparent world which can be handled by
> > an
> > > all-seeing watchmaker according to a plan.
> > > <end of quote>
> > >
> > >
> > > [All the above is from pg 17-19 of _Vygotsky Today: On the Verge of
> > > Non-Classical Psychology_, by Alexander Asmolov, 1998, Nova Science
> > > Publishers.]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Feb 17, 2009, at 1:41 AM, ulvi icil wrote:
> > >
> > >  Hello,
> > >>
> > >> I would like to ask any reference book or article about the*
> > >> theoretical*reasons of why Vygotsky was not recognized in Soviet Union
> > >> starting from 30s
> > >> until 60s (it seems that, according to Mike (Cole) , his students were
> > >> still
> > >> in a situation of dissidence even around 1990s.
> > >>
> > >> I know that there may be many absurd political reasons about the ban
> on
> > >> Vygotsky and his colleagues.
> > >>
> > >> But rather than the political ones, I would like to know the
> theoretical
> > >> reasons: What the Soviet power did not like in Vygotsky's theory and
> > >> approach? Did such a reason exist which belonged not to politics but
> to
> > >> science of psychology itself?
> > >>
> > >> I know that Vygotsky rejected to qualify psychology "Marxist" easily ,
> > >> without truly obtaining a scientific, Marxist science of psychology
> (He
> > >> emphasized that psychology can only be Marxist in "Historical
> Crisis").
> > >>
> > >> May be authorities did not like his approach in this regard. Also, in
> > that
> > >> period, authorities did not like people look also to the West in
> various
> > >> areas, including the art and they preferred people create science, art
> > etc
> > >> which belong only to Soviet Union...etc
> > >>
> > >> So, is there any hint about there any big theoretical difference
> beween
> > >> what Soviet authorities preferred and what Vygotsky followed?
> > >>
> > >> Is there any memoirs from Luria, Leontiev about this?
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >>
> > >> Ulvi Icil
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >
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