Re: [xmca] PoTAYto and PoTAHto

Thank you Michael for that survey of conceptions of "the
Other" in various writers close to our own tradition of
thinking. It is much appreciated. I was of course just being
provocative, because I hear this term used so broadly as if
its meaning were well known and stable, which it isn't.

The etymology of the word "subject" is actually very complex
and interesting. It entered the philosophical lexicon as a
Latin translation of the Greek hypokeimenon and went through
some interesting inversions which I trace in

http://home.mira.net/~andy/works/the-subject.htm

See particularly the sections of chapters 2, 3 and 4 on
Aristotle, Descartes and Kant.

Andy

Wolff-Michael Roth wrote:
> David,
> And one more thing concerning agency and passivity, the subject plays an
> important role in activity theory and in grammar, as the seat of agency.
> And jet, etymologically, the word comes from the Latin sub-, under, and
> jacere, to throw. Thus we have the expressions being subject to or being
> a subject of the queen (where live, anyways), all of which are
> expressions of subjectivity in the face of the agency that we are
> endowed with. But once we act upon the object (etym: Lat: ob-, against,
> in the way of, and jacere) we experience resistance, both from the
> object (ob, against) and from our own bodies, which pain if we do too much.
> :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> On 14-Oct-08, at 11:50 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote:
>
> David
> On the dialectic of agency and passivity, also go to Bakhtin (1993, p.
> 41): (a) I find myself in Being (passivity) and I actively participate
> in it; (2) both that which is given to me and that which is yet to be
> achieved by me: my own uniqueness is given, yet at the same time it
> exists only to the extent to which it is really actualized by me as
> uniqueness".
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
>
> On 14-Oct-08, at 7:30 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>
>
> Sounds very much like the Tao, Michael.
>
>
>
> Wolff-Michael
> Roth To: Steve Gabosch
> <stevegabosch@me.com>
> <mroth@uvic.ca> cc: "eXtended Mind,
> Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca]
> PoTAYto and PoTAHto
> xmca-bounces@web
> er.ucsd.edu
>
>
> 10/14/2008 09:22
> AM
> Please respond
> to "eXtended
> Mind, Culture,
> Activity"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve,
> it is not just that we strive but that we are part of worldly and
> world-generating events that we have no control over; but this is
> only the effect of the radical passivity that characterizes our
> experience----even if David does not want to admit to it. In the very
> process of writing these words, I am absolutely active writing the
> sentence to become what it will be and absolutely passive with
> respect to the language I realize in writing, for it is a language
> that has come to me from the other, which I use for the other, and
> which therefore returns to the other (pace Derrida). With respect to
> the functioning of the language, the meaning that straddles the
> writer of these lines with the Other more generally, and many other
> things are totally out of my control while they are within. We cannot
> think agency, the fact of writing, without also attending to the
> radically passive elements that come with language, with
> understanding, etc.
> "I . . . I . . . I" there is an ideology that I can do all, that if I
> want I can lift the earth, become a creator of myself . . .. It is an
> ideology (in the positive sense of the word) that is especially
> characteristic of the US (where any hint of assisting the collective
> is stamped and branded as "socialism")
> Michael
>
>
> On 14-Oct-08, at 6:13 AM, Steve Gabosch wrote:
>
> The solution in my mind is that we need to strive to be collective in
> our approach - while individually we sway, in groups we stand a
> better chance against the winds and storms that buffet us in all
> directions. One of course needs to choose the right group that
> corresponds to their core sense of the world, and the right group for
> one's group to work within, perhaps ultimately entailing numerous
> nested groups, (not all of our choice) and then changing groups as
> needed (when possible), but even within such complex situations, we
> still need to rely on others to help us guide ourselves. This means
> needing to cultivate a strong sense of cooperation and teamwork that
> is mixed with straightforward (while hopefully tactful) criticism,
> with the goal of mutual growth and empowerment. (That sounds a bit
> starry-eyed, I admit, but what the hell - cynicism is too easy).
>
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-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy/ +61 3 9380 9435 
Skype andy.blunden
Hegel's Logic with a Foreword by Andy Blunden:
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