Re: [xmca] My ISCAR

Mike, all, especially Wayne - please chime in on what I write below
about the session on CHAT& Marx and the 'negative zoped' that Mike
picked from Emily's mail.

I looked at my notes of Carl Ratner's presentation and he started by
saying that how we understand "culture" pretty much determines the
lines in which we interpret what a zoped is.

He introduced two basic options, first one, widely used in work based
on CHAT, is the one in which culture is more or less 'social
institutions embodied in psychological phenomena' (and also material
artifacts). Here social interaction is viewed as something that
expands us, and culture is seen as a cognitive amplifier. (Hence it
is meaningful to study social interaction in e.g. class rooms in
which a group of students come up with e.g. novel conceptualization
or a novel use of an old one.)

The other option to view culture one is based on Marx's notion of
culture with a political economic basis. This is to say, that all
social institutions, not just work places, but schools, families etc.
are effected by the partly oppressive or degrading, or dehumanizing
relationships. If this is the view on culture we take, then we might
be interested to ask such questions as how does schooling produce
inequalities, or relate to consumerism.

When a child grows up in an abusive family or in an abusive
educational environment the zoped can be oppressive. Here Carl
referred to the study on etiquette of race, how growing up either
black or white in a particular environment (I think it was down South
USA) affects children so that race is the basis of their identity.

So, the abstract idea (in LSV's notion of ZPD) about the importance
of social interactions needs to be examined in its CONCRETE forms
(such as the case of growing up to be black or white in a certain
society). The concrete level contradicts the abstract level, and it
is the concrete level is determining.

Carl's argument was that if we take Marx seriously, the conclusion is
that zoped exist only in the abstarct in an oppressive society. It is
concretized in very different ways. So, we need to analyze what is
wrong with the conrete level (the actual zpd's children and adults
experience) and try to develop an alternative ethical basis.

-Jonna

Mike Cole kirjoitti 27.9.2008 kello 18.59:

> Super interesting discussion, Steve. Thanks. Seems like Mary's
> paper should
> be added to those for discussion, but our plate is getting so full!!
>
> In this connection, there is a tie for article from XMCA for
> discussion.Someone who has not, please vote and let us get that
> article made avaialable
> by Taylor
> and Francis for all.
>
> Mary-- Perhaps you can simply send your paper to XMCA and them
> which has the
> time/inclination can start discussing?
>
> Emily. I misread your initial summary of Carl's point. I thought
> you wrote
> that
> that cultural psych must attend to explanation, but it turns out to be
> exploitation.
> Echoing Steve on the inattention to class.
>
> Negative zopeds:
>
> Seems like we have to ask ourselves about "which way is up," the
> implicit or
> explicit teleology that allows us to speak of development/
> regression. In the
> *Construction Zone*, Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I have an
> example of
> "regression" or "negative development" that could be linked to the
> idea of a
> negative zoped. But I am not sure this is a useful way to talk. It
> sort of
> suggests that all development occurs only if there is a specifically
> designed zoped to induce it. Life is messier than that is my
> intuition.
>
> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 3:49 AM, Worthen, Helena Harlow <
> hworthen@illinois.edu> wrote:
>
>> Steve, I'm going to print this out and keep it. It will inform my
>> use of
>> the activity triangle from now on.
>>
>>
>> Helena
>>
>> Helena Worthen, Clinical Associate Professor
>> Labor Education Program, Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
>> University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
>> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
>> Champaign, IL 61821
>> Phone: 217-244-4095
>> hworthen@uiuc.edu
>> http://lep.ilir.uiuc.edu
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Steve Gabosch
>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:29 PM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] My ISCAR
>>
>> What a great way to describe what ISCAR felt like, Emily. And I
>> really liked Jonna's post last week. What I get from these posts is
>> what I also came away with at ISCAR - many new and many deepened
>> relationships that mean a great deal to me. And a whirlwind of
>> social
>> and intellectual moments that kept my brain and heart at full tilt
>> from the beginning to the end. New ways for me to think about old
>> questions - and new questions I had never considered.
>>
>> There are so many issues and ideas and threads and themes that ISCAR
>> moved me forward on - or made me aware of for the first time - that I
>> couldn't begin to articulate half of them. So I'll mention just one
>> set of questions that came up in a few of my many stimulating
>> conversations.
>>
>> Basically, this: Is the activity triangle a useful tool?
>>
>> After a number of conversations where these kinds of questions came
>> up, I found myself being able to list 6 useful aspects of the
>> activity
>> triangle. And as I did, I could see many aspects of the conference
>> itself reflected in these various aspects.
>>
>> One, the activity triangle suggests a way of joining the two overall
>> aspects of activity - the sociological (rules, communities, divisions
>> of labor) and psychological (subjects, mediating tools/signs, and
>> objects) by providing mnemonics for places to start investigating
>> both
>> aspects simultaneously. In other words, "activity" is used as a way
>> to conceptualize human experience in both psychological and
>> sociological terms at the same time, something that to my knowledge
>> has never been successfully done, and rarely attempted. The triangle
>> in some ways represents this new approach, both in spirit and in
>> methodology.
>>
>> This freedom and facility to go from one kind of "realm" to
>> another at
>> ISCAR was one of its hallmarks for me. The incredible range of
>> research at ISCAR from the macro to the micro, the social to the
>> psychic, the biological to the historic, the cultural to the neural,
>> and everything in between is extraordinary and unique in academic
>> social science. One would have to search far and wide to find
>> another
>> scientific conference that does anything close to this kind of
>> analysis and synthesis of so many aspects of humanity, aspects that
>> are traditionally divided into highly bounded disciplines. The
>> activity triangle in its simplistic way represents this profound bio-
>> social, cultural-historical, socio-cultural and cultural-psychic
>> range
>> of perspectives so many brought to ISCAR. By poking its upper half
>> into the realm of traditional psychology and its bottom half into the
>> realm of traditional sociology, the ATr indicates the possibility of
>> seeing the human world through the eyes of human activity in **all**
>> its forms and levels from a common perspective. While most probably
>> don't actually refer to the activity triangle very often, if at all,
>> the idea of seeing human activity in an entirely new way that breaks
>> down and transcends all the old barriers and restrictions is
>> something
>> I saw many at ISCAR striving for, each in their own way.
>>
>> Two, the ATr emphasizes mediational and transformational dynamics in
>> all human activities, actions and operations - everything is
>> connected, everything is changing everything else, and is being
>> changed itself. I saw this sense of the dynamism of life constantly
>> expressed at the conference, in so many creative ways. But it was
>> even deeper than that. The sense that the world not only is
>> changing,
>> but can be **consciously** changed, seemed to pervade the conference.
>> I found this attitude very inspiring.
>>
>> Three, the ATr emphasizes that activity has a strong cyclical aspect.
>> It indicates how each incremental change in an activity system steps
>> through all the dynamic relationships within it, and which it is
>> within, and creates a slightly new system and changed object each
>> time, over and over, around and around, until the system itself is
>> transformed into something else.
>>
>> Fourth, it also indicates how activity has a strong linear aspect -
>> how alongside its cyclical meanings, the triangle also captures in a
>> single picture, moving from left to right, how a process can begin
>> with a subject and a context, and end with a transformed object. The
>> ability of the ATr to depict both the cyclical and linear aspects of
>> change - both continuity and discontinuity - is one of its most
>> powerful features, and helps explain why it can be so easily used to
>> depict so many different things in so many different time frames and
>> scales.
>>
>> Fifth, the inner triangles and locations of the nexus points of
>> the AT
>> allow for a depiction of the key economic categories of production,
>> distribution, exchange and consumption. Michael Roth has an
>> interesting discussion of this aspect of the activity triangle in a
>> recent editorial in the MCA Journal. Picking up on his thoughts, I
>> found myself talking with some about how the activity triangle can be
>> used not just for activity systems, which are determined by
>> fundamental motives, such as eating and being sheltered, but also for
>> what I call "action systems," where goals drive repeated actions,
>> such
>> as going to a particular school class or commuting to work. Most
>> uses
>> of the ATr in empirical analyses seem to be focused on "action"
>> systems rather than "activity" systems - that is, on goal-driven
>> rather than motive-driven activities. This is not a problem, in my
>> mind. Rather, it shows the general applicability of the AT as a way
>> to help one begin an inquiry into any level of human activity. This
>> issue came up in a session where Kris Gutierrez spoke about cultural
>> practices. In some activity conceptions, the terms "action" and
>> "practice" clash. Using this "action system" concept, however, the
>> terms are complementary - cultural practices are simply repeated
>> actions that become culturally routinized and individually
>> internalized. The way that Kris discusses and theorizes cultural
>> practices, in my view, is a very good example of the
>> multidisciplinary
>> power of CHAT.
>>
>> Sixth, the triangle represents (you have to go to the Helsinki
>> site to
>> see this depicted in a little animation) how animal relations
>> (nature,
>> population, individuals) were transformed into human relations.
>> Individuals became subjects, populations became communities, and
>> nature became humanly transformed objects - with entirely new
>> entities
>> appearing for the first time, such as tools/signs, rules, and
>> divisions of labor. So the ATr also has meaning regarding some key
>> anthropological concepts.
>>
>> There are these, and other useful ideas represented in the activity
>> triangle, even if individually these ideas are general and basic, and
>> if some of these ideas are less important to some, and more important
>> to others. Taken together, however, these ideas begin to explain how
>> so many people from so many disciplines from so many parts of the
>> world speaking so many different languages can find a common
>> perspective - human activity - from which to discuss, research and
>> change the human world.
>>
>> The activity triangle and the activity theorizing it suggests,
>> despite
>> its occasional ridicule (after all, it is just a little cartoon), and
>> despite its obvious simplicity, is somehow able to represent
>> important
>> aspects of one of the most multidisciplinary approaches to human
>> experience ever invented. It certainly cannot answer any
>> questions or
>> do any calculations - sorry to disappoint any cognitive
>> quantitativists who have held such hopes :-)) - but in its simplistic
>> way it indicates certain ways to begin asking useful questions. Any
>> toolbox that helps people ask new kinds of questions is certainly
>> something to think about - don't you agree?
>>
>> There were many good examples of employing this toolbox at ISCAR.
>> For
>> me, one of finest pieces of research work and use of the CHAT and ATr
>> toolbox that I saw at ISCAR was Mary Van der Riet's keynote
>> address on
>> "CHAT and HIV/AIDS: An activity system analysis of a lack of
>> behaviour
>> change". This research is a brilliant example of how the activity
>> triangle and CHAT can help ask questions in new ways. A life and
>> death question was addressed: why are so many sexually active young
>> people in South Africa not using condoms, despite the very high rate
>> of HIV infection? This paper is a classic and I hope becomes well
>> read.
>>
>> This link should get those with Moodle accounts to her paper:
>> http://moodle.id.ucsb.edu/file.php/1428/Van_der_Riet_Mary.pdf
>>
>> Looking at how a) CHAT guided Mary, how b) she was able to critique
>> not only the existing individualist rational-behavioral paradigms
>> currently in vogue in SA government AIDS prevention programs, but
>> also
>> c) aptly critique the critics of these programs, and d) contrast a
>> CHAT approach with these perspectives, and then go on to e) begin to
>> dig deeply into the social motives and cultural issues surrounding
>> this complex question, the methodological power of CHAT and the ATr
>> stood way out for me.
>>
>> In my view, Mary moved the entire CHAT community forward with this
>> single paper. At the same time, while this paper shows how CHAT can
>> be applied to **analyzing** critical social problems, it does not
>> have
>> (nor did it claim to have) any suggested **solutions**. It will be
>> very interesting if this research effort eventually does generate
>> suggested solutions, and if they can be implemented, and then their
>> results observed. That is a tall order, of course, but it is what
>> CHAT must do. Another shortcoming, not just of the paper, but of
>> CHAT
>> itself - as well as the activity triangle as it is presently
>> construed
>> - is that little attention is paid to class issues. CHAT in its
>> current form today does not obscure attention to issues of social
>> class, but it also does not directly facilitate it. But these and
>> other limitations of this paper are a consequence of its strengths -
>> it applies 3rd generation CHAT to a very difficult and vital social
>> problem, revealing both the effectiveness and limitations of the
>> kinds
>> of questions 3rd generation CHAT has so far learned how to pose.
>>
>> As a kind of answer to the pragmatic question I asked to start with -
>> is the activity triangle useful? - I would suggest that it matters
>> little whether you use this cartoon or any other number of ways to
>> collect your thoughts. The heart of the matter lies in what
>> questions
>> you ask. And that little ATr has some good ones to get you started,
>> as Mary Van der Riet's paper illustrates.
>>
>> Finally, this business about asking questions is one of the ways I
>> find helpful to understand what brings the people of ISCAR (and the
>> people of xmca, too) together. We certainly don't agree on all the
>> same answers, but despite the wide variety of disciplines, cultures
>> and traditions we are influenced by, we are often asking similar
>> questions - and above all, we are willing learn new ways to ask and
>> pursue them. I saw this in nearly every single presentation I
>> saw, in
>> every conversation I had at ISCAR, and in every person I listened to.
>> For me, this constant striving to learn new ways to ask and pursue
>> questions about every aspect of humanity was the heart and soul of
>> the
>> entire conference - "my ISCAR", as Emily nicely put it. And that is
>> something I will always keep with me and treasure.
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2008, at 12:08 AM, Duvall, Emily wrote:
>>
>>> It's hard to pull the week together, to be honest.
>>> So many people, so many sessions, so little sleep... but here goes
>>> some
>>> stream of consciousness... perhaps it will encourage others to
>>> talk in
>>> more depth.
>>> At some point I would like to talk a bit more about the work that
>>> Tatiana shared with me once I have worked with it a bit.
>>> Truly a gift... thank you for the intro Elina!
>>> ~ Em
>>>
>>> My ISCAR
>>>
>>> Monica, my intrepid and talented grad student, and I find the
>>> elevator
>>> to room 4412.
>>> We don't have to walk up four flights!
>>> We think it's four flights...
>>> Home for the next week... :-)
>>>
>>> There's Ana...time for wining, dining and...
>>> CHAT-ting!
>>> We see Pooh on the way... they call it Pooh, Ana says..
>>> It's a pile of rocks. We have a landmark.
>>> The Bear.
>>>
>>> Monday I sleep and grade my online class;
>>> I thought I'd get out to go kayaking
>>> I say hi to Gordon - I make it out to get a Latte; soy.
>>> Monica was off to CHADOC.
>>> We're up half the night talking.
>>>
>>> Tuesday it begins in earnest.
>>> The importance, eh?
>>>
>>> Drawing,
>>> Drawing pictures, arrows, squiggles...
>>>
>>> Primacy of the word in psychological development
>>> 'Seeds of communication' as mother and child smile at each other
>>> Readiness to take culture in... Zinchenko
>>> Sensation/acts integrated through affect...
>>>
>>> John-Steiner - the complementarity of cognition/affect
>>> Dialectical relation.
>>> Cole's brain and culture co-construct
>>> What about schooling constructing, schooling as culture
>>> Consequences of schooling
>>> Neurophysiological
>>>
>>> Smagorinsky et al...
>>> Arts in core curriculum
>>> Role of affect in writing...
>>> Mahn: Writing Protocol
>>> Writing to Learn
>>> Dialogic interaction, negotiation of meaning, analysis of text
>>> Promotion of conceptual thinking
>>> Allowing students to access the concept in their own language
>>>
>>> ...ways in, eh?
>>>
>>> Putting more faces to names on xmca... Preiss, Connery...
>>>
>>> Tuesday night, I head out to sing-along Mama Mia with an old friend
>>> from
>>> high school...
>>> I skip Carl's fireside chat...
>>> Later Carl asks me if I prefer singing to Marx?
>>> 12 years of choir notwithstanding, I think I'm better off with Marx.
>>>
>>> Views of culture influence psychological phenomenon
>>> Cultural psychology should be focused on explanation
>>> Ratner - negative impact of ZPD
>>> Think about the etiquette of race,
>>> Explain the psychology, the perpetuation of oppression
>>>
>>> National narrative: Wertsch and the cultural tools that we don't
>>> know
>>> are there
>>> How they shape... narrative templates, like a schematic
>>> Narrative power rather than accuracy, but grounded in historical
>>> episodes
>>> Example:
>>> 1. Setting: Russia is peaceful
>>> 2. Trouble: wonton attack - want to destroy Russian
>>> 3. Russia: almost destroyed
>>> 4. Russian heroism & sacrifice = victory
>>> Ethnocentric narcissism...
>>>
>>> Symbolic tools may not help if you don't know how to use them
>>> Kozulin - must introduce them!
>>> Mediated learning experience: immigrant/minority students
>>> learning new
>>> ways
>>> Rigorous mathematical thinking example
>>> Foster internalization of psychological tools
>>> The factory metaphor...
>>>
>>> USD
>>> CHAT-ting!
>>> Taking turns in the Israeli army and the ease of switching between
>>> English and Afrikaans...
>>> The trials of living in England if you're not English...
>>> You know, you just can't get a glass of Riesling in California.
>>>
>>> It's Thursday so it must be Dynamic Assessment!
>>> And it's a Penn State reunion Thorne...
>>> And then Poehner and Lantolf...
>>> My introduction to Vygotsky.
>>> Iddings talks DA... high stakes testing for ESL students
>>> Poehner talks DA...understanding the object by changing it
>>> Roth talks DA... problematizing... is there something that can be
>>> assessed
>>> Atencio talks DA... try to bring in authentic/world... not just an
>>> analytic lens
>>>
>>> Dinner out - we miss the aquarium.
>>> CHAT-ting!
>>> Peter and Leo, Jim and Holbrook, Steve and Matt, and...
>>> Monica and I are up late again, talking, CHAT-ting.
>>> She has to listen to my talk rehearsal.
>>> I should have taped it.
>>>
>>> I change it at the last minute...
>>>
>>> It's Friday....and MORE DA!
>>> Some issues with scheduling...
>>> Kozulin talks DA...cognitive modifiability with adults, new
>>> immigrants,
>>> changing futures
>>> I talk DA... high stakes testing of reading for children with
>>> learning
>>> disabilities
>>> Robbins talks DA... zones of potential development
>>> ... some issues with technology.... timing
>>> Kotik finds us a room and we gather to talk DA for hours more...
>>> Lantolf and Poehner talk about their training cd...
>>>
>>> The Friday night party...
>>> Wolfgang tells me about cortisol levels and ADHD...
>>> Elina introduces me to Tatiana
>>> My Saturday is planned...
>>> International song fest after the conga...
>>>
>>> Akhutina and I spend the morning together.
>>> She graciously takes me through her work.
>>> And I see where I need to go next. This is my high point.
>>> I see where I have stopped too soon, both theoretically and
>>> practically.
>>> It's the impetus I need to move forward.
>>> The School of Attention materials are so much deeper than our
>>> western
>>> ways.
>>> I see how much time we waste.
>>> How superficial the content in our schools seems.
>>> Neuropsychology... Isn't this close to where we began with Cole?
>>>
>>> My head and heart are full.
>>> But I manage to catch Rogoff so my cup runnethed over (my grammar
>>> overrunneth)
>>> Did you get the handouts Monica?
>>> And the ethnography...
>>> Hey, there we are, University of Idaho!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>

_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
Received on Sat Sep 27 12:12 PDT 2008