RE: [xmca] RE: mental health

Mike and Anton,

Yes, theory and practice methodology must be signaled.
I undestand that in 1927 Vygotsky talk about the more
general methological principle as 'dialetic'. Do this make sense?

'(...) the dialectic of psychology – this is what we may now call
the general psychology in opposition to Binswanger’s definition
of a “critique of psychology” – is the science of the most general
forms of movement (in the form of behavior and knowledge of
this movement), i.e., the dialectic of psychology is at the same
time the dialectic of man as the object of psychology, just as
the dialectic of the natural sciences is at the same time the
dialectic of nature.' (Vygotsky. The Historical Meaning of The
Crisis in Psychology: A Methodological Investigation. Cap 5.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri05.htm)

Seems that applied psychology demands/gives impulse to the
development of this general psychology, as 'dialetic of psychology'...

'The center has shifted in the history of science: what was at the
periphery became the center of the circle. One can say about
appliedpsychology what can be said about philosophy which was
rejected byempirical psychology: “the stone which the builders
rejected is becomethe head stone of the corner.”
(Vygotsky. The Historical Meaning of The Crisis in Psychology:
A Methodological Investigation. Cap 12.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri12.htm)

Then I'm iterested in psychology applied to mental health...
Can we really creat semiotical means to produce better mental
health to people? Or this kind of a goal is a mistake like possible
Vygotsky´s or perhaps some Vygotsky's followers' mistakes about
'social engeneering'?

The references pointed by Anton are very interesting. There we
can see, for example, the Vygotsky´s thesis (presented in Barcelona's
1930 Sixth Congress of the International Association of
Applied Psychology) called 'Le problème des fonctions
intellectuelles supérieures dans le système des recherches
psychotechniques'... (but without the pages 336-341)...

Vygotsky refers to psychopatogical questions in researchs related
to a construction of a critical view in the field of applied psychology:
'Les recherches expérimentales des fonctions intellectuelles supé-
rieures (formation des concepts, attention active, mémoire active,
réaction compliquée du choix - libre et déterminé), l'éclaircissement
du procès de leur developpement chez l'enfant (pensée concrète,
intellect practice, langage égocentrique, formes précoces du travail
enfantin) et l'étude de leur decomposition aux violations pathologiquesde l'activité intellectuelle (dans l'aphasie, dans l'hystérie, dansl'oligophrénie, dans l'encéphalite épidémique), faits par l'auteur et
ses collaborateurs, perment à fixer un point de vue nouveau sur
cette question...' (Vygotsky. In: Applied Psychology. The First-
Thirteenth Congress Proceedings of the International Association of
Applied Psychology. Vol 6. The Sixth Congress, Barcelona, 1930. Ed.
Horst Gundlach - p. 332)

Somebody knows how can I obtain a complete version of these
Vygotsky's thesis?

Thank you very much, Anton and Mike. I will read Anton's suggestions,
trying to compose an initial understanding about Psychology applied
to mental health questions/production.

Achilles,
Umuarama, July 11, 2008.

> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:05:57 -0700
> From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> To: the_yasya@yahoo.com; xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: [xmca] RE: mental health
> CC:
>
> Three votes for psychotechnics. The relation to practive might be meant to
> be equivalent to applied psychology but it would be
> nice if a a theory and practice methodology were being signaled. :-)
> mike
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:22 AM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I would suggest
> > - French 'psychotechnique' or 'Psychologie Appliquée'
> > - Spanish 'Psicotecnia ' or 'La psicología aplicada'
> > - English 'Psychotechnics' or 'Applied Psychology'
> >
> >
> > Sources:
> > 1) http://community.livejournal.com/psyhistorik/15502.html
> > 2)
> > http://fs-morente.filos.ucm.es/docentes/carpintero/Iaaphist/IAAPhist.htm
> >
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 7/11/08, Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > Subject: RE: [xmca] RE: mental health
> > > To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Received: Friday, July 11, 2008, 2:13 AM
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > Only one more little question:
> > >
> > > The Russian word in Puzirei's 'note 24' is
> > > 'психотехника' (psykhotekhnika) =
> > > maybe 'psychotechnics', not
> > > 'psychotechnology'.
> > > Do you agree?
> > >
> > > ('psychotechnology seems more 'rough'.
> > > Recently there was here a discussion about the problem of
> > > Vygostsky's potential
> > > and/or actual project of 'social engeneering' x
> > > 'enpowerment' in order to human kind
> > > (self)produce 'better man'...
> > > {but, tekhné(Greek) = art (?)})
> > >
> > > And, in the Russian version that I have, there is not this
> > > interesting word 'psychopraxis' that appears in
> > > English translation,
> > > but only 'psykhotekhnika' again in the
> > > Vygotsky's text quoted by Puzirei. In my Spanish
> > > version, translated has 'psicotecnia'...
> > > (Vygotski, Obras Escogidas. Tomo 1. Ed. Amelia Alvarez y
> > > Pablo del Rio, Madrid 1991 - p. 358)... In Portuguese:
> > > 'psicotecnia'
> > > too, but... translated from the same Spanish, without more
> > > explanations... 'psychopraxis'...
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > > Achilles,
> > > Umuarama, July 11, 2008.
> > >
> > >
> > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:37:50 +0000
> > > Subject: [xmca] RE: mental health
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok, Mike.
> > >
> > > See: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/Vygotsky1986b.pdf
> > > Vygotsky, LS (1929/1989). Concrete human psychology. Soviet
> > > Psychology, 27, (2), 53–77
> > > Russian text @ 1986 by Moscow University. Vestn. Mask.
> > > Un-ta. Ser. 14, Psikhologiya, 1986, No. 1, pp. 51-64.
> > > (Notes by Andrei Puzirey)
> > >
> > > Complete Puzirey's notes I've partially quoted before:
> > >
> > > [Methodology of psychotechnology (and/or psychopraxis)]
> > > 24. In his work [The historical meaning of the crisis in
> > > psychology], ([Collected
> > > work]. Vol. 1, pp. 289 ff.), indiscussing the ideaof
> > > 'general psychology.'
> > > which he understood as the 'methodology of
> > > psychotechnology' (in the
> > > broad sense) or 'a philosophy of practice,'
> > > Vygotsky formulated one of the
> > > most fundamental characteristics of such a psychology: its
> > > orientation toward
> > > psychotechnology in the broad sense of the word, i.e., the
> > > techniques of practical
> > > work with the mind, its transformation, control over it,
> > > and its develop
> > > ment. Vygotsky writes, 'The goal of such a psychology
> > > is not Shakespearean
> > > concepts, as Dilthey says, but psychopraxis. i.e., a
> > > scientific theory that would
> > > result in subordination and mastery over the mind, in the
> > > artificial control of
> > > behavior.'
> > > (Puzirey, p. 75)
> > >
> > > [Person and illness]
> > > 26. This idea, which is found repeatedly in this text of
> > > Vygotsky's, can also
> > > be found in many contemporary psychologists and
> > > psychotherapists of the post-
> > > Freudian school, for example, representatives of the
> > > 'humanist' school,
> > > which attaches fundamental importance to it. However, this
> > > idea can also be
> > > found, perhaps in its clearest and most concise form, in
> > > the works of Thomas
> > > Mann. Thus, in the preface to the American one-volume
> > > edition on Dostoevsky
> > > (see T. Mann, [Collected works], Vol. 10). where he
> > > discusses to what extent
> > > the fact that Dostoevsky was apparently mentally ill (an
> > > epileptic) left its mark
> > > on his literary production, Mann insists that is not, and
> > > cannot be, a direct and
> > > unambiguous causal relationship between the nosological
> > > characteristics of a
> > > disease (even in the case of a mental disorder) and a
> > > person's personality traits
> > > and the general line of his mental development. It is
> > > important to know,
> > > according to Mann's basic idea, not what illness a
> > > person has, but what person
> > > has a particular illness. Similar thoughts can be found in
> > > Vygotsky's earlier
> > > works, particularly in those devoted to an analysis of the
> > > problem of character.
> > > See for example, the work from 1928 [The problem of the
> > > dynamics of child
> > > character], [Collected works]. Vol. 5, pp. 153, 165, and
> > > elsewhere. See also
> > > the postulate that it is not possible to determine
> > > unambiguously the development
> > > Of the Personality in terms of individual properties in
> > > Leont'ev's later works
> > > for example, [Activity Consciousness. Personality]. Moscow,
> > > 1975. P. 177
> > > and others).
> > > (Puzirey, p. 76)
> > >
> > > Thank you, very much.
> > >
> > > Achilles.
> > > Umuarama, 10 July, 2008.
> > >
> > > Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:43:13 -0700From:
> > > lchcmike@gmail.comTo: achilles_delari@hotmail.comSubject:
> > > mental health
> > >
> > > I am sorry not to respond quickly to your interesting
> > > recent posts,. Achilles. I will do so as soon as I can.Did
> > > you provide English reference for Puzerei? Very few members
> > > of xmca read Russian.mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
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Received on Fri Jul 11 11:37 PDT 2008