Re: [xmca] How to conceive of the Social Situation of Development.

I am getting a paper on the concept of development in the history of Gestalt
Psychology by
Mitchell Ash posted for part of this discussiion. Eugene sent me a pdf of a
few pages from
Sartre that specify his idea of project but I am unsure where the file is.
Hopefully Eugene
can send for posting for discussion.

The idea of ontological project is in the work of Eugene and of Martin P.
How to get that in front of us is unclear, but Eugene's paper is availalbe
from Culture and Psychology and Martin might pick something from his book
that is relevant.

I think about the only thing that is clear here is that we are not clear. In
such cases,
re-examination is sometimes the best way forward.

I will be going offline for a week and will rejoin the discussion around
July 1. We have a couple of local staffing changes also occuring. If anyone
needs help with XMCA-related stuff, email either/or bjones@ucsd.edu or
bmacevic@ucsd.edu .

mike

AND VOTE FOR ARTICLE FOR DISCUSSION AT http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/index.html
On 6/20/08, Geoff <geoffrey.binder@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps because the term is not rigidly defined, Wittgenstein's 'form
> of life' might help? The concept is thoroughly social, bounded, yet
> scaleable. To be engaged in a FoL is to communicate and act in
> accordance with the rules defined by the FoL. I think FoL shed light
> on our relationship to social structures - it is the knowing how to
> act, without necessarily being aware of the defining social
> structures.. Another positive aspect of FoL is that they can
> conceivably overlap,or be multiple, and activated by changes in
> context. I may act agentively only in a context in which that act is
> meaningful - as such, the 'project' that I'm engaged with will depend
> on what is salient at the time.
>
> Andy, I don't know whether this helps with your problem, but I do
> agree with David's concern regarding the asocial conatation of
> project. While we can and do define terms to suit our use, I'm not
> sure of the profit to be had in redefining project to mean something
> other than a 'rational' pursuance of a stated goal.
>
> Also, I'd not necessarily agree that 'the environment' is passive. The
> physical environment is dynamic and active. While the environment can
> not be said to have intent, it does act powerfully. I think we need to
> be able to theorise the relationship between humans and the
> environment dialectically as both working on the other, not as one
> being at the service of the other - which, I believe is implicit in
> 'passive'.
>
> Cheers, Geoff
>
> 2008/6/20 Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>:
> > David,
> >
> > When I gave the USA as an example of a "project" I meant this to convey
> the
> > idea that "project" is something objective. So it is significantly true
> that
> > two people may be interacting with each other while involved in two
> > different projects, but it is not just something inside the head. It
> arises
> > socially and can be determined objectively. Naturally, the misalignment
> of
> > projects is an issue. If a teacher is involved in a project of education,
> a
> > child needs to be recruited to that project.
> >
> > I certainly agree that "project" not= "environment". That's the point.
> The
> > "environment," as I understand it, is a passive surround/context from
> which
> > the subject gains resources or cues. A person is an active participant in
> a
> > project though. I think all projects are going somewhere, though they
> > probably are not normally undergoing "development."
> >
> > There is always an element of "A rose is a rose by any other name" in
> these
> > questions. That's why I tried to indicate the provenance I had in mind,
> > viz., pragamtic interpretations of Hegelian Gestalten. Very much a
> *social*
> > kind of thing. :) I do not have an Existentialist conception in mind.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > David Kellogg wrote:
> >>
> >> Andy, it's a very interesting project. Here are some problems I think
> need
> >> thinking:
> >>
> >>
> >> a) A social situation of development is NOT the same thing as the social
> >> environment of learning. The latter is organized by a teacher; it's the
> >> teacher's project and not the learner's. But then how does the former
> lead
> >> the latter, as it must?
> >>
> >>
> >> b) A social situation of development (for me) puts "social" before
> >> "development". This is because the society is the precondition for the
> >> development rather than vice versa; it's possible to imagine a society
> >> without development (the USA?) but not development without a society.
> >> "Project" seems to me to put development before social. Who is
> projecting
> >> what onto whom?
> >>
> >>
> >> c) I already have a lot of trouble distinguishing between logogenesis
> >> (Halliday), microgenesis (Wertsch), learning (LSV) and development
> (ditto).
> >> "Project" seems to stand athwart all of these processes like a
> collossus.
> >> Yet isn't the way you define it really about ontogenesis rather than any
> of
> >> them?
> >>
> >>
> >> d) Like you, I STRONGLY feel the need to find some other word than
> >> "activity". But perhaps the reason I feel this is the problem Kozulin
> points
> >> to (as LSV did before him). Any word, whether it be "activity", or
> >> "Gestalt", or "unconscious" or "personality", becomes meaningless if we
> ask
> >> it to explain too much; it becomes a frog trying to be as big as an ox.
> So
> >> what are the upper and lower limits of usefulness of the word "project"?
> >>
> >>
> >> David Kellogg
> >>
> >> Seoul National University of Education
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy/ +61 3 9380 9435 Skype
> andy.blunden
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Geoffrey Binder
> BA (SS) La Trobe, BArch (Hons) RMIT
> PhD Candidate
> Global Studies, Social Sciences and Planning RMIT
> Ph B. 9925 9951
> M. 0422 968 567
> _______________________________________________
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Received on Fri Jun 20 11:17 PDT 2008