Re: [xmca] Ilyenkov and Spinosa, with relevance to LSV

Thanks Sasha---

I doubt if xmca is going in one specific direction, but in recent months we
certainly have been getting deep into issues of great importance to deeper
understanding of socio-cultural-historical-activity approaches and both
their philosophical and empirical underpinnings.

As Peter notes, the new and complex material flowing into our "in boxes" is
overwhelming our abilities to file and save, never mind read, think about,
and discuss!!

Perhaps in this case, you could provide us with some relatively brief
selection of carefully juxtaposed texts that would allow those of us who
have not been inside your discussions to grasp the
key issues and points of contention quickly? That would be a great help.

mike

2008/5/31 Alexander Surmava <monada@netvox.ru>:

> Hi, Mike
>
>
>
> as one of participants of the discussion among Russian followers of
> Il'enkov I can only greet the interest to this topic from our Western
> colleagues. This discussion, as well as the discussion on XMCA concerning
> materialism and idealism demonstrates that the real alive research process
> in the field of CHAT shifted now to the sphere of Dialectical psychology at
> least in Russia and XMCA :-).
>
> I afford some remarks to the topic which will be entirely subjective as I
> represent interested party in the discussion.
>
> I deeply appreciate Andrey Maidansky as an organizer of web sites with full
> collections of texts of Evald Il'enkov and Spinoza. His giant work which
> gave all of us a technical possibility to read and download practically *
> ALL* Ik'enkov's texts and great number of his photos can't be
> underestimated.
>
> In the same time I participated in the discussion between Andrey and Lev
> Konstantinovitch Naumenko and entirely share the position of the latter. Now
> when Andrey's text, which he translated into English is available for
> XMCA'ers I insist that all his arguments will acquire a sense only in the
> full context of discussion. Now only Russophones can estimate not only
> sophisticated (and translated into English) arguments of Maidansky but the
> arguments of his opponents as well. I mean first of all three articles of
> Lev Naumenko and at any rate <http://Word_1> one my unpublished (English)
> article about further development of Il'enkov-Spinizian idea of thinking
> body (it waits it's turn for publication in JREEP for two years :-) and I am
> not sure I'll live to see it published ;-) and one my unpublished (Russian)
> monograph can contribute the more concrete vision of the opposite positions.
> Not to speak of my new article analyzing the newly published Vygotsky
> manuscripts from Il'enkov's dialectical perspective.
>
> Lev Naumenko argues against main idea of Andrey in the field of philosophy
> and logic, while I'm trying to demonstrate the heuristic potential of the
> very Il'enkov's ideas (of "thinking body)" which Andrey tries to discard in
> theoretic psychology. From my point of view Maidansky is trying to discard
> the most interesting and the most exact dialectical idea of Evald Il'enkov,
> the idea which puts him as a thinker into the one rank with the greatest
> world philosophers like Hegel and Marx. Maydansky is trying to catch
> Il'enkov in the act of banal scholastic blunder or misunderstanding, in
> "falsification" of Spinoza. I am sure that those attempts are absolutely
> inadequate themselves.
>
> As a result Maydansky invites say psychology to return to banal
> Cartesianism and behaviorism.
>
> The alternative way of development can be realized entirely on Il'enkov's
> insights about Spinoza, on his great dialectical idea of "thinking body".
> Here we (Dialectical psychologists) invite everybody to pay attention to the
> problems (e.g. psycho-physical problem) and only lately to the words and
> declarations, to be researchers more than ideologists as some of us often
> used to be.
>
> Those who want to go deeper in all this stuff I can invite to my website
> were texts of discussion are available.
>
> http://voxnet.ru/~monada/archive.php?lng=eng<http://voxnet.ru/%7Emonada/archive.php?lng=eng>
>
> English texts:
>
> 1.EVALD IL'ENKOV AND WORLD PHILOSOPHY by Lev Naumenko
>
> Russian texts:
>
> 6. L.K.Naumenko Ob Eval'de Il'enkove, o vremeni i nemnogo o sebe
>
> 11.A.D. Maidanskii Ponyatie myshleniya u Il'enkova i Spinozy Voprosy
> filosofii, 8 (2002), s. 163-173 1
>
> 12.A.D. Maidanskii O myslyaschih veschah i zharenyh kvadratah
>
> 13.L.K.Naumenko O «MYSLYaSchEM TELE», «DEISTVUYuSchEM DELE», O KVADRATNYH
> KVADRATAH I KVADRATAH ZhARENYH.
>
>
>
> http://voxnet.ru/~monada/articles.php?lng=eng<http://voxnet.ru/%7Emonada/articles.php?lng=eng>
>
> My English texts:
>
> 14. A.Surmava Life psyche consciousness Published in Russian in collected
> works of Vygotsky institute, RGGU.
>
> 18. A.Surmava TO THE HISTORICAL ROOTS OF THE PSYCHO-PHYSICAL PROBLEM
> Unpublished article.
>
> Russian texts:
>
> 1. A.Surmava THE PRINCIPLES OF REFLECTIVE THEORY OF ACTIVITY. Manuscript
> of unpublished monograph.
>
> 17. Psycholigy and dialectic - the drama of creation (Thу theoretic
> reflection upon the newly published manuscript of Vygotsky.) Published in "Metodologiya
> i istoriya psihologii". #1, 2007. Moscow
>
> 16. Il'enkov and revolution in psychology (In Russian ) (About Evald
> Il'enkov and its revolutionary role in the history of psychology).
>
>
>
> By the way the available in English article "TO THE HISTORICAL ROOTS OF THE
> PSYCHO-PHYSICAL PROBLEM" has direct connection to the discussion on
> Idealism and Materialism as well.
>
>
>
> Thereupon I put the dot and go to bed J…
>
>
>
> See you!
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Mike Cole
> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:27 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Cc: Andrey Maidansky
> Subject: [xmca] Ilyenkov and Spinosa, with relevance to LSV
>
>
>
> People may be interested in checking out a brief discussion a discussion of
>
> the idea of
>
> "thinking body" in Ilyenkov and Spinoza to be found at the following url.
>
>
>
> http://caute.net.ru/spinoza/mds/am.htm
>
>
>
> Professor Maidansky has also written a paper on Spinoza and LSV that starts
>
> from a fragment in LSV's diary where he says that only a future psychology
>
> will be able to make use of Spinoza's insights. We hope to publish the
>
> article
>
> in JREEP.
>
>
>
> mike
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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>
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>

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Received on Sun Jun 1 09:11 PDT 2008