Re: [xmca] Nobel prize talks stupid things about human intelligence

Eric, I was not following this debate closely. This post clearly explains
where you are coming from, so my "What's the problem?" response was
uncalled for. I guess I was not reacting to Watson as a "grand old man" and
"non-conformist" who "made a mistake" but rather as one of many people who
follow unthinkingly in the trend of which Watson was a contributor, to the
effect that it is "all in the genes." So of course in his "correction" he
only repeats what caused offence: "Africans aren't inferior, just different
... because of their genes."
I should apologise for using derogatory words about anyone on this list, I
suppose, but any specialist who thinks that their own particular specialism
explains everything is not in my humble opinion worthy of very much praise.
Andy
At 07:45 PM 20/10/2007 +0200, you wrote:
>Well, the issue here is (at least from my point of view) in part how the mass
>media works ("sanctimonious mob reaction" being the outcome of a growing
>moral
>panic). The issue is also whether academe should close ranks and support this
>sanctimonious current, or whether it should bide its time and aspire to
>mobilize some kind of rational, temperate counterweight to the usual "mob"
>chain reaction.
>
>According to this article:
>http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3075664.ece
>
>... he has said that: "To those who have drawn the inference from my words
>that
>Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologise
>unreservedly. This is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of
>view,
>there is no scientific basis for such a belief."
>
>"This is not a discussion about superiority or inferiority, it is about
>seeking
>to understand differences, about why some of us are great musicians and
>others
>great engineers."
>
>"[S]cience is not here to make us feel good."
>
>Perhaps he was misquoted, who knows? He is 79 years old, a grand old man.
>Should every non-conformist specimen of the species be ostracized for being
>wrong or misquoted? How would the history of science look like without
>scientists making mistakes? Who wants to cast the first dogmatist stone?
>
>E.
>
>
>On 2007-10-20, at 18:21, Mike Cole wrote:
> > Yes, there is a kind of sanctimonious mob reaction to Watson's remarks.
> > We have been here before with THIS issue and one does not have to go back
> > to Latin. We might start with Larry Summers re gender.
> >
> > The crux of the matter seems to me to be the following in Watson's case:
> > "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is
> > the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really".
> >
> > The "them" appears to apply to people of African decent, which includes
> > everyone
> > on XMCA if one wants to take that implication seriously, but really, to
> > people who
> > remained in Africa (a hugelyl heterogeneous continent) when our more
> > immediate
> > predecessors migrated elsewhere, including the Australian outback, the
> north
> > of Norway, and
> > island of Hokaido (for whom similar claims have been made).
> >
> > In my view, the man is badly misinformed. "The testing" he refers to is
> > not like the kind of test for
> > genetic markers, HIV, etc that he is used to dealing with, and scholars
> > like Sternberg and Grigorenko,
> > following on a long line of work (the early history of which is traced
> by SJ
> > Gould, Gustav Jahoda, in my monograph
> > of 1996, the Handbook of Cross Cultural Psychology, where the work of
> Dasen,
> > Serpell, and others
> > is described says NO SUCH THING.
> >
> > However, if he wants to site literature to support his point of view,
> he can
> > find it. Arthur Jensen has retired
> > but he has not disappeared. Nor have some other behavioral geneticists who
> > make the same argument.
> > I would not be surprised to see them surface in his defense as time passes.
> > We will see.
> >
> > Remind me not to make ill informed pronouncements about DNA that offend
> > people's deep beliefs.
> >
> > mike
> > On 10/20/07, Wolff-Michael Roth <mroth@uvic.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't want to be overly picky, but it is "rero" (Lat. for accused)
> >> not "reo," as I seem to be recalling from my Latin lessons some 40
> >> years ago. :-)
> >> Cheers,
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 19-Oct-07, at 11:43 PM, E. Knutsson wrote:
> >>
> >> In dubio pro reo? No doubt! Immediate crucifixion! And where is
> >> Barabbas? Or
> >> Giordano Bruno?
> >>
> >> On 2007-10-19, at 15:55, David Preiss wrote:
> >> >
> >> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7052416.stm
> >> >
> >> > In his Sunday Times interview, Dr James Watson was quoted as saying
> >> > he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all
> >> > our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is
> >> > the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really".
> >> >
> >> > He was further quoted as saying that his hope was that everyone was
> >> > equal but that "people who have to deal with black employees find
> >> > this is not true".
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Just disgusting, racist, horrible...
> >> >
> >> > David
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > David Preiss, Ph.D.
> >> > Subdirector de Extensión y Comunicaciones
> >> > Escuela de Psicología
> >> > Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
> >> > Av Vicuña Mackenna 4860
> >> > Macul, Santiago
> >> > Chile
> >> >
> >> > Fono: 3544605
> >> > Fax: 3544844
> >> > e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl
> >> > web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/
> >> > web institucional: http://www.epuc.cl/profesores/dpreiss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >>
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  Andy Blunden : http://home.mira.net/~andy/ tel (H) +61 3 9380 9435,
mobile 0409 358 651

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Received on Sun Oct 21 01:47 PDT 2007