Re: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT

Hi,
I like the notion presented by Ana of a network of key words and
phrases as these would be very helpful for novices.
The notion of weighted links seems a little arbitrary if we accept the
idea that CHAT is a family of related theories rather than a very
clearly agreed upon single set of assumptions,
Vera

Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote:

> It would be interesting and very useful if each bibliographic
> reference could get a very short annotation which could be expandable
> by individual contributions (of limited size). We could also develop a
> network of tags (key words and phrases) that could be attached to each
> reference and form a non-linear web -- instead of developing strict
> categories?
> Ana
>
> Mike Cole wrote:
>
>> Yep--
>>
>> My suggestion is that we follow multiple paths and coordinate results
>> and
>> inform each other of progress.
>> A few things are in motion.
>> 1. Cathrene is collecting sources sent to her that purport to provide
>> relevant historical accounts.
>> 2. Cathrene and I are conspiring with a local librarian to get a
>> bibliogrpahic program that represents time and
>> connections together and we have hopes of a local history grad
>> student and
>> history professor interested in
>> multi-media representations of history (so that non-linear elements,
>> such as
>> andy tossing 2000 into 2007 so we can
>> see from two sides at once) are represented.
>> 3. Michael Roth has offered a source of quotes and there must be a
>> way to
>> feed those data into a structure data base with temporal parameters
>> in it.
>> Not sure who will follow up on that.
>> 4. The issue is apparently going on the agenda for ISCAR.
>>
>> What else??
>> mike
>> On 9/16/07, Emily Duvall <emily@uidaho.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I agree Paul, to a point. I don't think citations are as impartial
>>> as we
>>> might like to think.
>>> Citations are important for academic work, but for various reasons that
>>> are not necessarily connected to the content. In some schools (maybe
>>> all?)
>>> how many times ones work has been cited can have an impact on
>>> tenure/promotion in which case (I have heard) encouraging folks to cite
>>> one's work has become part of the process. This has become a little
>>> more
>>> interesting given that the current directions for citations are to
>>> cite only
>>> those that you quote or refer to directly.
>>> It doesn't take into consideration what we may recommend to others
>>> to read
>>> or, for that matter, what we may read ourselves.
>>> I think that some form of weighting is important, but should take into
>>> consideration what we all believe to be foundational, or perhaps
>>> what we may
>>> have actually read.
>>> That said, I have no solution other than to add in a survey of top
>>> ten and
>>> check off of items read that could easily load into a data base.
>>> More bean
>>> counting, for sure, but balancing the weight of jobs and pubs with
>>> other
>>> criteria.
>>> My suggestion re organizing material categorically was more my own
>>> bias re
>>> how I think about material historically.
>>> On the other hand, my meanderings needn't make the process more
>>> problematic that it may seem to appear. Perhaps your approach is a
>>> better
>>> beginning... :-)
>>> Any other suggestions out there?
>>> ~ Em
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>>> Behalf Of Paul Dillon
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 10:31 AM
>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
>>>
>>> Emily,
>>>
>>> The use of citations needn't claim to be anything more than that.
>>> But I
>>> really can't think of anything else that could provide an impartial
>>> index of
>>> the relative importance of the contributions of the people or the
>>> specific
>>> works themselves. Such an index would also reveal the sub-groups,
>>> branches,
>>> etc., more consistently than an attempt to evaluate those
>>> structures on the
>>> basis of an evaluation of the content - e.g., evaluating the different
>>> approaches to "internalization". Moreover, it would be faster to
>>> produce
>>> (using SSRI or other citation indexes) A "before, during, and after"
>>> approach wouldn't reveal much of the structure of the discourse or the
>>> interconnections between those who have contributed in some lasting
>>> way.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> Emily Duvall <emily@uidaho.edu> wrote:
>>> Perhaps we generally sort pre-Vygoskian matter, during Vygotsky,
>>> post-Vygotsky....literally using dates as an initial sort and then
>>> tree out
>>> the former and the latter?
>>> I worry about weight.
>>> ~ Em
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>>> Behalf Of Paul Dillon
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:40 PM
>>> To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
>>>
>>> Might it be as easy as counting the references and establishing
>>> weighted
>>> links that way?
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Mike Cole wrote:
>>> Hi H&P ( nice pairing of initials to print by)--
>>>
>>> I was kind of thinking of Steve Gould-ish pictures too, but worrying
>>> about
>>> the issues that Paul raises.
>>> I love the idea of plastering whatever the representation is with
>>> xmca/xlchc
>>> notes, but also figured we
>>> would have references to printed article and where possible, links to
>>> those
>>> sources.
>>>
>>> We have a librarian who is being very helpful in thinking about
>>> this, but
>>> I
>>> think Cathrene should be controlling the pace
>>> while the rest of us feed materials into some kind of retrievable-from
>>> structure.
>>>
>>> Can't think beyond that. Something not too big, not too little, not to
>>> structured master narrative not too disjointed to make sense of,
>>> something
>>> kind of
>>> half baked but potentially nourishing with the input of a little
>>> energy.
>>>
>>> You know, something easy.
>>> :-)
>>> mike
>>> On 9/13/07, Paul Dillon
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> It occurred to me that this process of producing a history of CHAT
>>>> could be approached as a tree shaped history beginning in LSV of which
>>>>
>>>
>>> CHAT
>>>
>>>
>>>> would be one branch, or as a tree beginning with CHAT, a current point
>>>>
>>>
>>> on
>>>
>>>
>>>> the river with many tributaries of which LSV would be one of the most
>>>> important. In either event it does seem to risk reification and future
>>>>
>>>
>>> use
>>>
>>>
>>>> as dogma. Perhaps a cross-referenced web of connections (a
>>>> hyper-text),
>>>>
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>>
>>>> multi-dimensional web of connections of different intensities and
>>>>
>>>
>>> strengths
>>>
>>>
>>>> between ideas and scholars (including their institutional connections)
>>>>
>>>
>>> might
>>>
>>>
>>>> make a better representation. Like a wiki it wouldn't risk dogmatic
>>>> authority or the creation of reifying categories.
>>>>
>>>> Paul Dillon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Worthen, Helena Harlow" wrote:
>>>> Mike, these NOT yes or no answer questions! :)
>>>>
>>>> What I was picturing was more like the construction of a tree-shaped
>>>> history, with its roots in the 1920's with LSV and its branches
>>>> reaching
>>>> into the present, and its surface made of a jigsaw of people's
>>>> memories
>>>>
>>>
>>> of
>>>
>>>
>>>> what happened when. Not readings, but contributions to xmca. Some
>>>> are in
>>>>
>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> archives already.
>>>>
>>>> For example, the kind of things Dot Robbins was actually present for.
>>>>
>>>> Your own experience in the 1960's.
>>>>
>>>> The fact that, in the 1990's, Mohamed felt it was important to pull
>>>> together this bibliography that demonstrated that there were Vygotsky
>>>> studies taking place in countries and languages that had very little
>>>> cross-communication.
>>>>
>>>> My little note about Bauer and Bruner which was meant to show that in
>>>>
>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> 1940's and 1950's, Vygotsky in the US was a shadow figure who belonged
>>>>
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>
>>>> the enemy, which still lingers in questions about whether he was a
>>>>
>>>
>>> Marxist
>>>
>>>
>>>> or not.
>>>>
>>>> The questions you list open the door to discussions that could go back
>>>>
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>
>>>> forth for a long time. I'm trying to stick with Cathrene's request,
>>>> from
>>>> down at the bottom of this message. She wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone:
>>>> Tony's eloquent characterization of "behaviorist hegemony giving
>>>> way to
>>>> cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn
>>>> to the
>>>> broader perspective of social ontology" is well put. How CHAT is being
>>>> presented to the rugged individualists (albeit mythological
>>>> entities) in
>>>> our teacher ed programs is of interest to me as well. It would further
>>>>
>>>
>>> be
>>>
>>>
>>>> helpful for CHAT neophytes like myself to hear how those of you who
>>>> have
>>>> shaped CHAT view how the domain has genetically evolved and, in some
>>>>
>>>
>>> cases,
>>>
>>>
>>>> splintered (i.e. the differences between sociocultural theory vs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> activity
>>>
>>>
>>>> theory).
>>>>
>>>> We could find out "how the domain has genetically evolved" if the wise
>>>> ones on this list would tell us what they saw happening, and when. Or,
>>>>
>>>
>>> if
>>>
>>>
>>>> the wise ones are to busy, someone (?) could select out from the
>>>>
>>>
>>> archives
>>>
>>>
>>>> some of the more remarkable "I was there when..." stories.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know where Eva Ekblad is?
>>>>
>>>> Helena
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Helena Worthen, Clinical Associate Professor
>>>> Labor Education Program, Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
>>>> University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
>>>> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
>>>> Champaign, IL 61821
>>>> Phone: 217-244-4095
>>>> hworthen@uiuc.edu
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>
>>>
>>> On
>>>
>>>
>>>> Behalf Of Mike Cole
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 4:15 PM
>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
>>>>
>>>> Do you think that broadening the project to include, for example, all
>>>>
>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> articles that have ever been written about or by Vygotsky would be the
>>>>
>>>
>>> way
>>>
>>>
>>>> to go, Helena? I was thinking
>>>> more of people's concerns with questions like:
>>>>
>>>> Did Vygotsky really consider activity as a basic category or was he a
>>>> semiotician at heart?
>>>> Did Vygotsky really get all his ideas from the French or Shpet in
>>>>
>>>
>>> Russia,
>>>
>>>
>>>> or........??
>>>> Did Leontiev elaborate or distort LSV's ideas?
>>>> Was Vygotksy a Marxist? Always, never, only when forced to act like
>>>> one?
>>>> Do Americans routinely mis-interpret both LSV and activity theory in
>>>> general
>>>> and in that connection create false histories?
>>>>
>>>> I doubt if anyone on xmca thinks there is one right answer to be found
>>>>
>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>>
>>>> THE real history
>>>> of this real of ideas. Rather, I was under the impression that
>>>> there is
>>>>
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>>
>>>> lot of interest in this and many allied questions that it might be
>>>> able
>>>>
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>
>>>> provide materials relevant to in a systematic manner. Seems like there
>>>>
>>>
>>> are
>>>
>>>
>>>> some cool bibliographic resources to be
>>>> had, cheap, at some institutions, UCSD turning out to be one of them
>>>>
>>>
>>> (not
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ithica college
>>>> however).
>>>>
>>>> In this light, I assume that some subset of the articles in Mohammed's
>>>> bibliography would
>>>> be relevant, many would not. But that is only *my* take on what the
>>>> discussion was pointing toward. And even that cut-down version seems
>>>> pretty
>>>> ambitious!!
>>>> mike
>>>> On 9/13/07, Worthen, Helena Harlow wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Andrew, can you say more about the teacher who "abandons the alphabet
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> begins instead with a large and sustained focus on each child's
>>>>> name,"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> does this following a training provided by the ministry of education?
>>>>>
>>>>> Helena Worthen, Clinical Associate Professor
>>>>> Labor Education Program, Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
>>>>> University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
>>>>> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
>>>>> Champaign, IL 61821
>>>>> Phone: 217-244-4095
>>>>> hworthen@uiuc.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Coppens
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 2:10 PM
>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ana Paula,
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be very interested to hear more about how you
>>>>> and your colleagues carry this out, especially in
>>>>> terms of language learning. Well, come to think of it
>>>>> I'm really interested in the whole thing!
>>>>>
>>>>> I currently work with local teachers in environmental
>>>>> education and English classes in rural public schools
>>>>> in Nicaragua, and also teach English with a group of
>>>>> adolescents in the community where I live (and many
>>>>> colleagues of mine in other parts of the country do
>>>>> similar things). In these small communities the fact
>>>>> that school curricula is so often removed from social
>>>>> and community activity is (for me, being educated in
>>>>> large schools in the U.S.) held in striking relief
>>>>> because, for the most part, all students live very
>>>>> close to each other and have long histories with thier
>>>>> communities often spanning generations. It would be my
>>>>> guess that these schools might especially benefit from
>>>>> your developments, being able to teach not only in the
>>>>> context of social activities generally common to 5th
>>>>> grade boys, for example, but also to 5th grade boys
>>>>> in THAT town.
>>>>>
>>>>> In some ways this connects with my experience in
>>>>> another sense as well. The first grade teacher in one
>>>>> of the schools I work with has shared with me an
>>>>> approach to teaching reading and writing that she has
>>>>> recently been implementing, based on training given
>>>>> from the national ministry of education. It mostly
>>>>> abandons the alphabet and begins instead with a large
>>>>> and sustained focus on each child's name, then the
>>>>> names of thier friends, and so on. She has had great
>>>>> success.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for offering to share your work. I'm excited
>>>>> to learn more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Mike Cole wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Ana Paula--
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I* want to know more!! Please!
>>>>>> mike
>>>>>> PS- I am (incidentally?) interested in your
>>>>>> statement that " every teenager
>>>>>> suffers with this process- [of first love]; What
>>>>>> does the word,
>>>>>> "suffer" mean:? I am a...... sort of...... well.....
>>>>>> not a lot more than
>>>>>> middle age (??) man and I am married to my 15 year
>>>>>> old first love. You think
>>>>>> teenagers know about suffering? Ask my wife!!
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (and, really write more)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/6/07, Ana Paula B. R. Cortez
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>>>> I have to be honest and tell you that I haven't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> read the whole
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> discussion and I'm not sure if what I'll write has
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to do with you've been
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> writing about, but I felt I could contribute with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I work at a bilingual school in the city of São
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paulo, Brazil, and since
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2005 we've been teaching English and the subjects
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in English (science, math
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and social studies) with the help of CHAT.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically (and very
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> simplistically), we teach contents inside social
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> activities. Let me give you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an example: think about the subject, an age group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and their grade, let's say
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> language, year 6; then, the kinds of social
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> activities in which students
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> would be involved in their real lives, not school
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> context (I like the one I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> call "my first love" - every teenager suffers with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this process); finally,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what the actions in this activity were, the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> subjects involved (all the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> elements of an activity and their roles: what the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> teacher would say and do
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to support and help adolescents in the process;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the students' roles as well
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - sharing feelings and experiences with friends,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> family, contacting magazine
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "agony aunts" and everything else that it takes),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the language (linguistic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> devices, genres,
>>>>>>> whatever) needed, so on an so forth. Then, we
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> organise the whole
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> curriculum based on this process, that's it.
>>>>>>> I know I might not have been that clear, but it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> took me my whole master
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> course and my dissertation to develop it, and it's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> been very successful (I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> presented it in Russia and Finland last year). In
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> case you feel like knowing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it, I can provide more details. I've been thinking
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> about writing a book to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> share this project and the experience, it might
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> help others too. Would
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anybody like to help me?
>>>>>>> Ana
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Worthen, Helena Harlow"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> escreveu:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I second the request from Cathrene Connery and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Donald James Cunningham
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to hear from some who have tried how they (you)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> present CHAT. The
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> historical perspective (behaviorism, cognitive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> science, sociocultural
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> perspectives) seems like a necessary one. But what
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> were the problems at
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> each point that pushed things onward?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Helena
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Helena Worthen
>>>>>>> Clinical Associate Professor
>>>>>>> Labor Education Program
>>>>>>> Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
>>>>>>> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
>>>>>>> Champaign, IL 61821
>>>>>>> Phone: 217-244-4095
>>>>>>> hworthen@uiuc.edu
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Cathrene Connery
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:59 PM
>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>>> Subject: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony Whitson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry for the delay in responding to this -- but
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it's a useful
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> question for discussion in this group.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I want to respond quickly on another point
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> before getting to your main
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> question about teaching CHAT.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First, you write:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've taught the usual suspects (behaviorism,
>>>>>>>>> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> processing) for years and have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> pretty good idea about them but would
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> appreciate some help on CHAT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where I am, students have learned a story about
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> how once upon a time
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the world was ruled by the behaviorists, but
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> they've been vanquished
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by the (scientifically, pedagogically,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> politically, and morally)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> superior forces of Cognitive Science. They think
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> that's where the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> story ends (as in the "End of History"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> celebrated since Daniel Bell in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the early 60's, where history completes itself
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> with the universal
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> triumph of capitalism).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think it's important for students to learn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> about what's happening
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "beyond cognitivism." For me, this is not just a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> matter of theory or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> intellectual politics: My students just won't
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> understand anything I'm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> saying or doing unless they understand that I'm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> addressing an ontology
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in which cognition cannot be understood except
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> as it is embedded in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the broader (not only cognitive) projects and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> processes of being and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> becoming. CHAT takes this stance against
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> reductive cognitivism, and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CHAT cannot be understood (IMHO) without
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> recognizing this. I think
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wenger & the Communities of Practice literature
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> perhaps makes this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> point more directly and accessibly, although
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> details have not been
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> theorized as extensively as in CHAT. Curriculum
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> theory -- my own home
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> turf -- has always approached education as a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> matter of ontology, not
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> merely cognition (i.e., not just Knowing, but
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being and Becoming).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, I would want to tell the story of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> behaviorist hegemony giving way
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> challenged by a turn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to the broader perspective of social ontology.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is not to say that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the reductivist ideology of cognitivISM is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> replaced by an ideology of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> postcognitivISM (see my post at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://postcog.net ); Nor is it a call
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for hegemonic "postcognitivism" in place of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> hegemonic cognitivism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One good source is Lave, Jean. "Teaching, as
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Learning, in Practice."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mind, Culture, and Activity 3, no. 3 (1996):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 149-64.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think this particular point might come through
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> more strongly in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lave, Jean. "Learning as Participation in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Communities of Practice."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Paper presented at the American Educational
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Research Association, San
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Francisco 1992.
>>>>>>>> (This paper is now linked from
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://postcog.net/#Lave . This is the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> paper Jean presented in the symposium that David
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kirshner and I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> organized, which grew into our book _Situated
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cognition_, although a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> different piece was used as her chapter in the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> book. The MCA article
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> includes aspects of the AERA paper, although its
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> scope is broader and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the social ontology argument may be less central
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to the complete
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> published article.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With regard to your main question, you write:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [I] was wondering if any of you would be
>>>>>>>>> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> how you present CHAT. I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> too interested in the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> distinction between action and activity or
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> working out the concept of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "object". Or am I wrong?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This could be a very interesting discussion for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> XMCA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As you suggest, for an undergrad Ed Psych class,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> it might be best to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> streamline CHAT a bit. However, I don't think
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the differentiation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> among the three levels of activity, action, and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> operations is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> dispensable. I think it's necessary to see
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> activities and activity
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> systems emerging on a social/cultural level
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> beyond consciously
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> goal-oriented action, and to see the role of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> routinized operational
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> activity that does not require conscious
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> attention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would be helpful to develop introductory
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> approaches for this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> audience. Starting points could include the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> resources at
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.edu.helsinki.fi/activity/pages/chatanddwr/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Roth, Wolff-Michael, and Yew-Jin Lee.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ""Vygotsky's Neglected Legacy":
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cultural-Historical Activity Theory." Review of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Educational Research
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 77, no. 2 (2007): 186-232.
>>>>>>>> as well as
>>>>>>>> pp. 27-47 in Spinuzzi, Clay. Tracing Genres
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> through Organizations: A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sociocultural Approach to Information Design.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cambridge, Mass.: MIT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Press, 2003.
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> pp. 29-72 ("Activity Theory in a Nutshell") in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kaptelinin, Victor, and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bonnie A. Nardi. Acting with Technology:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Activity Theory and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interaction Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2006.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Cunningham, Donald James
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And in a week or so, I will begin teaching an
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> undergraduate class in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Educational Psychology" for future teachers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It has been a few years
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> since I taught such a class and was wondering
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> if any of you would be
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> how you present CHAT. I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> too interested in the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> distinction between action and activity or
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> working out the concept of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "object". Or am I wrong? I've taught the usual
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> suspects (behaviorism,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> processing) for years and have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> pretty good idea about them but would
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> appreciate some help on CHAT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don Cunningham
>>>>>>>>> Indiana University
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ancora Imparo!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [xmca] mediational theories of mind:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suggestions requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Xmca-ites---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Toward the end of the month I will begin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> teaching a grad course on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> mediational theories of mind.
>>>>>>>>> I would love suggestions for interesting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> readings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We will be looking in a sort of "mcLuhanesque"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> way at the affordances
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> different kinds of mediators
>>>>>>>>> in human action/activity/mind.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, language and thought
>>>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>>> film
>>>>>>>>> music
>>>>>>>>> tv
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>> === message truncated ===
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
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>>
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Received on Sun Sep 16 12:36 PDT 2007