Re: [xmca] ISCAR Panel

Dear Ana! If the panel would be wider the bilingual education, say Chat and
language learning and teaching I would be happy to join. Bella Kotik

On 9/8/07, Ana Paula B. R. Cortez <apbrcortez@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
>
> Dear Olga,
> I think I can talk to some of my colleagues in Brazil and we can organize
> a panel on bilingual education and CHAT. If that interests you, we can work
> on that and send you the structure.
> Ana
>
> Olga Vasquez <ovasquez@weber.ucsd.edu> escreveu:
> >Thanks Judith,
>
> We now have one more slot for the panel that
> Cathrene is proposing on the history
> of CHAT with individuals working on various
> aspects of the enterprise and different places
> of the earth.
>
> Cathrene, could you define it for us?
> Olga
>
> >
> >I am following up on the panel that I suggested
> >based on the meeting here in Brazil. What about
> >a panel between ethnographers and chat theorists
> >to juxtapose the traditions on studying learning
> >in and out of schools
> >
> >I propose:
> >
> >Elsie Rockwell, Mexico
> >
> >Marietta de haan, the netherlands
> >
> >Clara Keating, Portugual (from David Barton's Group)
> >
> >robert rueda or luis moll or norma gonzalez, US
> >
> >responders--
> >
> >Carol Lee, US (or carol could talk and robert, luis or norma could
> respond)
> >
> >Bernard Schnewley, Geneva
> >
> >On 9/7/07, Olga Vasquez
> ><ovasquez@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >wrote:
> >
> >Dear Colleagues and friends,
> >
> >It is true, ISCAR will take place in San Diego! It is not a
> >malicious rumor. Everything is set--rooms, time schedule, etc.
> >However, our 6-campus planning committee is trying to maintain the
> >"complexity" and comprehensiveness that all our work embraces as the
> >basic unit of analysis, and
> >therefore are taking a little longer than usual to finalize our
> >vision and our schedule--as you
> >say below, working collaboratively across time, place, and
> >intersections of our theories, is a complex,
> >complicated thing to do. In fact, I wish that we could some how, some
> >day, broadcast some of
> >the ICHAT discussions we during our planning sessions--they are as
> >exhilarating as those on this forum.
> >
> >Do look for the announcement of the conference, "Ecologies of
> >Diversities" to come out in
> >the next two weeks. The conference will be held here at UCSD from
> >September 8 (welcoming
> >reception) to the 13th, 2008.
> >
> >Let us know what you all would like to propose for a symposia. Your
> >ideas are very much
> >in line with one of the emphases we want to give the
> >conference--systems of collaborative effort.
> >
> >I look forward to meeting you all,
> >Olga
> >
> >ISCAR Planning Committee
> >
> >>Hi Cathrene-
> >>
> >>Lets see what your initiative uncovers. A lot I hope. As to ISCAR, maybe
> the
> >>idea of an ISCAR in
> >>San Diego is just a malicious rumor? (The offer of a cot and key to the
> lab
> >>stand, so far no takers)
> >>
> >>Here is a small contribution to your project that might be of some
> interest.
> >>Check out the first page of the document at
> >>http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Pubs/CHILDPSY.pdf.
> >>Published in 1981. The "author"
> >>is labelled as lchc, but if you go to the bottom of the first page,
> there is
> >>a list of the contributors with non-acronymic names
> >>Perhaps there are some clues to history in that list?
> >>mike
> >>
> >>PS-- A search on Raeithel on lchc might yield a little information as
> well.
> >>
> >>On 9/7/07, Cathrene Connery
> >><cconnery@ithaca.edu>
> >>wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi everyone:
> >>> Thanks to Mike for the interesting graphic by Arne Raethell. It is a
> >>> beautiful heuristic and psychological tool. The notion of putting
> >>> together a session at ISCAR on this topic is actually a very good one
> >>> ...and while the complexity of the task may appear to require the
> >>> spacial / relational intelligence of a cab driver from Chicago or
> >>> London, I believe that by elucidating the major thoroughfares, back
> >>> alleys, and main streets associated with CHAT would invite more
> >>> participants into the larger discussion.
> >>>
> >>> Like Mike, we are all swamped right now and are likely to be heading
> to
> >>> the gym or the bar. (Perhaps I am the only person on the East Coast
> >>> still in her office on Friday at 5:00 p.m.?) However, if the weight of
> >>> this question could be amicably shouldered by the collective,
> >>> distributed intelligence and historical memory of this list serve, I
> >>> think the task is doable. What if everyone took a deep breath, typed
> >>> the stem "In the beginning...." and wrote in a stream of conscious
> >>> fashion knowing that there is a younger generation of scholars, an
> eager
> > >> audience, who need and look up to your guidance? One or two
> paragraphs
> >>> would be enough. Perhaps people on the list serve could agree to
> >>> disagree in advance without challenging others interpretations? The
> >>> results might be very interesting: a multi-dimensional prism
> >>> highlighting the many colors / interpretations of the field.
> >>>
> >>> The CHAT community is unique among list serves exhibiting a comraderie
> >>> and respect other electronic conversations don't reflect. If each
> >>> person could highlight a piece of the puzzle related to their
> interest,
> >>> we'd have a fascinating mosaic from which we could co-construct
> >>> individual and perhaps, a collective vision. Besides, we don't want
> >> > Mike to go through life out of breath, experiencing his
> responsibilities
> >>> to the list serve like one of those slick TV wrestlers who heaves
> bodies
> >> > across the ring. As far as the cot and key are concerned, if there
> >>> are any opportunities to do post-doc work, please let me know!
> >>> Happy Friday,
> >>> Cathrene
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mike Cole wrote:
> >>> > HUGE FONT FOR HUGE QUESTION!!!
> >>> > Now for the small print - read with care)
> >>> > (I volunteer to do this work on condition that members of xmca
> complete
> >>> two
> >>> > grant proposals required in next few weeks, prepare for,
> >>> > and teach my fall classes! I will provide a cot and key to LCHC to
> my
> >>> > substitute at UCSD during this time period. And when I am done,
> >>> > like the dragon's teeth that Jason stirred up looking for the golden
> >>> fleece,
> >>> > a thousand better informed colleagues will point out the
> >>> > total idiocy of my interpretation of history)
> >>> >
> >>> > Now, feeling all springy and cool after the passing fit of local hot
> >>> air, I
> >>> > will say that
> >>> > I think it would be most useful, if there is genuine interest in
> such
> >>> > historical excavation,
> >>> > exegesis, and exciting prospects, that it be (shhhhh) a collective
> >>> effort.
> >>> >
> >>> > There are books written on this topics, several chapters of books
> about
> >>> > which some members
> >>> > of xmca are presumably knowledgeable because their names are
> attached to
> >>> > them, as well as
> >>> > many papers written on this topic in many languages, and hot
> disputes
> >>> about
> >>> > this topic in several
> >>> > world capitals as we stare at our screens. There is even a lot to be
> >>> found
> >>> > by goggling on lchc.
> >>> >
> >>> > For the moment (I am about to join my family after a long day of
> work) I
> >>> > append a graphical genaeology (sp?) created by Arne Raeithel that
> may
> >>> > indicate some of the territory to be covered in a way some will find
> >>> useful.
> >>> > I have a few documents around the lab I can dig up that most will
> >>> > not know about that are relevant. But this topic, if people really
> want
> >>> to
> >>> > engage it, requires willingness of many to cooperate in a
> collaborative
> >>> > archeaology of ideas.
> >>> >
> >>> > Perhaps this would make an interesting general symposium at ISCAR
> next
> >>> year,
> >>> > if the organizers, wherever they are hiding, ever get around
> >>> > to making public their plans for that august occasion.
> >>> >
> >>> > mike
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On 9/6/07, Worthen, Helena Harlow
> >>><
> >>>hworthen@ad.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> I second the request from Cathrene Connery and Donald James
> Cunningham
> >>> >> to hear from some who have tried how they (you) present CHAT. The
> >>> >> historical perspective (behaviorism, cognitive science,
> sociocultural
> >>> >> perspectives) seems like a necessary one. But what were the
> problems at
> >>> >> each point that pushed things onward?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Helena
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Helena Worthen
> >>> >> Clinical Associate Professor
> >>> >> Labor Education Program
> >>> >> Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
> >>> >> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
> >>> >> Champaign, IL 61821
> >>> >> Phone: 217-244-4095
> >>> >> hworthen@uiuc.edu
> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>> >> From:
> >>>xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>[mailto:
> >>>xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > >> >> On Behalf Of Cathrene Connery
> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:59 PM
> >>> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >>> >> Subject: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Tony Whitson wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Don,
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Sorry for the delay in responding to this -- but I think it's a
> useful
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> question for discussion in this group.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I want to respond quickly on another point before getting to your
> main
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> question about teaching CHAT.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> First, you write:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>> I've taught the usual suspects (behaviorism,
> >>> >>>> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years and
> have
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >> a
> >>> >>
> >>> >>>> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on
> CHAT.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>> Where I am, students have learned a story about how once upon a
> time
> >>> >>> the world was ruled by the behaviorists, but they've been
> vanquished
> >>> >>> by the (scientifically, pedagogically, politically, and morally)
> >>> >>> superior forces of Cognitive Science. They think that's where the
> >> > >>> story ends (as in the "End of History"
> >>celebrated since Daniel Bell in
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> the early 60's, where history completes itself with the universal
> >> > >>> triumph of capitalism).
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I think it's important for students to learn about what's
> happening
> >>> >>> "beyond cognitivism." For me, this is not just a matter of theory
> or
> >>> >>> intellectual politics: My students just won't understand anything
> I'm
> >>> >>> saying or doing unless they understand that I'm addressing an
> ontology
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> in which cognition cannot be understood except as it is embedded
> in
> >>> >>> the broader (not only cognitive) projects and processes of being
> and
> >>> >>> becoming. CHAT takes this stance against reductive cognitivism,
> and
> >>> >>> CHAT cannot be understood (IMHO) without recognizing this. I think
> >>> >>> Wenger & the Communities of Practice literature perhaps makes this
> >>> >>> point more directly and accessibly, although details have not been
> >>> >>> theorized as extensively as in CHAT. Curriculum theory -- my own
> home
> >>> >>> turf -- has always approached education as a matter of ontology,
> not
> >>> >>> merely cognition ( i.e., not just Knowing, but Being and
> Becoming).
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> So, I would want to tell the story of behaviorist hegemony giving
> way
> >>> >>> to cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a
> turn
> >>> >>> to the broader perspective of social ontology. This is not to say
> that
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> the reductivist ideology of cognitivISM is replaced by an ideology
> of
> >>> >>> postcognitivISM (see my post at
> >>>http://postcog.net ); Nor
> >>>is it a call
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> for hegemonic "postcognitivism" in place of hegemonic cognitivism.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> One good source is Lave, Jean. "Teaching, as Learning, in
> Practice."
> >>> >>> Mind, Culture, and Activity 3, no. 3 (1996): 149-64.
> >>> >>> I think this particular point might come through more strongly in
> >>> >>> Lave, Jean. "Learning as Participation in Communities of
> Practice."
> >>> >>> Paper presented at the American Educational Research Association,
> San
> >>> >>> Francisco 1992.
> >>> >>> (This paper is now linked from
> >>>http://postcog.net/#Lave
> >>>. This is the
> >>> >>> paper Jean presented in the symposium that David Kirshner and I
> >>> >>> organized, which grew into our book _Situated Cognition_, although
> a
> >>> >>> different piece was used as her chapter in the book. The MCA
> article
> >>> >>> includes aspects of the AERA paper, although its scope is broader
> and
> >>> >>> the social ontology argument may be less central to the complete
> >>> >>> published article.)
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> With regard to your main question, you write:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>> [I] was wondering if any of you would be
> >>> >>>> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present
> CHAT. I
> >>> >>>> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested in
> the
> >>> >>>> distinction between action and activity or working out the
> concept of
> >>> >>>> "object". Or am I wrong?
> > >> >>>>
> >>> >>> This could be a very interesting discussion for XMCA.
> >>> >>> As you suggest, for an undergrad Ed Psych class, it might be best
> to
> >>> >>> streamline CHAT a bit. However, I don't think the differentiation
> >>> >>> among the three levels of activity, action, and operations is
> >>> >>> dispensable. I think it's necessary to see activities and activity
> >>> >>> systems emerging on a social/cultural level beyond consciously
> >>> >>> goal-oriented action, and to see the role of routinized
> operational
> >>> >>> activity that does not require conscious attention.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> It would be helpful to develop introductory approaches for this
> >>> >>> audience. Starting points could include the resources at
> >>> >>>
> >>>http://www.edu.helsinki.fi/activity/pages/chatanddwr/
> >>> >>> and
> >>> >>> Roth, Wolff-Michael, and Yew-Jin Lee. ""Vygotsky's Neglected
> Legacy":
> >>> >>> Cultural-Historical Activity Theory." Review of Educational
> Research
> >>> >>> 77, no. 2 (2007): 186-232.
> >>> >>> as well as
> >>> >>> pp. 27-47 in Spinuzzi, Clay. Tracing Genres through Organizations:
> A
> >>> >>> Sociocultural Approach to Information Design. Cambridge, Mass.:
> MIT
> >>> >>> Press, 2003.
> >>> >>> and
> >>> >>> pp. 29-72 ("Activity Theory in a Nutshell") in Kaptelinin, Victor,
> and
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Bonnie A. Nardi. Acting with Technology: Activity Theory and
> >> > >>> Interaction Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press, 2006.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Cunningham, Donald James wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>> And in a week or so, I will begin teaching an undergraduate class
> in
> >>> >>>> "Educational Psychology" for future teachers. It has been a few
> years
> >>> >>>> since I taught such a class and was wondering if any of you would
> be
> >>> >>>> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present
> CHAT. I
> >>> >>>> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested in
> the
> >>> >>>> distinction between action and activity or working out the
> concept of
> >>> >>>> "object". Or am I wrong? I've taught the usual suspects
> (behaviorism,
> >>> >>>> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years and
> have
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >> a
> >>> >>
> >>> >>>> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on
> CHAT.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Don Cunningham
> >>> >>>> Indiana University
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Ancora Imparo!
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> >>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>
> >>>[mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> >>> >>
> >>> >>>> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
> >>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 PM
> >>> >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >>> >>>> Subject: [xmca] mediational theories of mind: Suggestions
> requested
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Dear Xmca-ites---
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Toward the end of the month I will begin teaching a grad course
> on
> >>> >>>> mediational theories of mind.
> >>> >>>> I would love suggestions for interesting readings.
> >>> >>>> We will be looking in a sort of "mcLuhanesque" way at the
> affordances
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >> of
> >>> >>
> >>> >>>> different kinds of mediators
> >>> >>>> in human action/activity/mind.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> So, language and thought
> >>> >>>> writing
> >>> >>>> film
> >>> >>>> music
> >>> >>>> tv
> >>> >>>> rituals
> >>> >>>> games
> >>> >>>> .........
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Starting with early 20th century writers of general familiarity
> to
> >>> >>>> members
> >>> >>>> of this list, I have been thinking about including
> >>> >>>> such works as Cszikentmihalyi, "meaning of things," Turkle's
> recent
> >>> >>>> "evocative objects," and perhaps something on mediated
> >>> >>>> behavior in large groups such as "the wisdom of crowds."
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Any and all suggestions warmly welcomed. So much going on its
> hard to
> >>> >>>> even
> >>> >>>> think about how to begin to think about this
> >>> >>>> upcoming fall!!
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> mike
> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>> >>>> xmca mailing list
> >>> >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>> >>>>
> >>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>> >>>> xmca mailing list
> >>> >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>> >>>>
> >>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>> Tony Whitson
> >>> >>> UD School of Education
> >>> >>> NEWARK DE 19716
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> twhitson@udel.edu
> >>> >>> _______________________________
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> "those who fail to reread
> >>> >>> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> >>> >>> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> >>> xmca mailing list
> >>> >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>> >>>
> >>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>> >>>
> >>> >> Hi everyone:
> >>> >> Tony's eloquent characterization of "behaviorist hegemony giving
> way to
> >>> >> cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn
> to
> >>> the
> >>> >>
> >>> >> broader perspective of social ontology" is well put. How CHAT is
> being
> >>> >> presented to the rugged individualists (albeit mythological
> entities)
> >>> in
> >>> >>
> >>> >> our teacher ed programs is of interest to me as well. It would
> further
> >>> >> be helpful for CHAT neophytes like myself to hear how those of you
> who
> >>> >> have shaped CHAT view how the domain has genetically evolved and,
> in
> >>> >> some cases, splintered (i.e. the differences between sociocultural
> >>> >> theory vs. activity theory). Thanks for engaging in an interesting
> >>> >> discussion. I realize this topic has already been hashed out
> on-line
> >>> >> previously, but it was Lev that said we only truly know something
> when
> >>> >> we view it in motion.
> >>> >> Cathrene
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >> Dr. M. Cathrene Connery
> >>> >> Assistant Professor of Education
> >> > >> 607.274.7382
> >>> >> Ithaca College
> >>> >>
> >>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>> >> xmca mailing list
> >>> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> > >>
> >>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>> >> xmca mailing list
> >>> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>> >>
> >>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >>
> >>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>> >> xmca mailing list
> >>> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>> >>
> >>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Dr. M. Cathrene Connery
> >>> Assistant Professor of Education
> >>> 607.274.7382
> >>> Ithaca College
> >>>
> >>>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>xmca mailing list
> >>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >
> >Olga A. Vasquez
> >Department of Communication
> >UCSD
> >9500 Gilman Drive
> >La Jolla, CA 92093
> >(858) 534-6284
>
>
> --
>
> Olga A. Vásquez
> Associate Professor
> Department of Communication
> University of California, San Diego
> La Jolla, CA 92093-0503
>
> (858)-534-6284
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> Flickr agora em português. Você clica, todo mundo vê. Saiba mais.
> _______________________________________________
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> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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>

-- 
Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
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