[xmca] Re: Genealogy & the Evolution of CHAT

Dear Colleagues and friends,

It is true, ISCAR will take place in San Diego! It is not a
malicious rumor. Everything is set--rooms, time schedule, etc.
However, our 6-campus planning committee is trying to maintain the
"complexity" and comprehensiveness that all our work embraces as the
basic unit of analysis, and
therefore are taking a little longer than usual to finalize our
vision and our schedule--as you
say below, working collaboratively across time, place, and
intersections of our theories, is a complex,
complicated thing to do. In fact, I wish that we could some how, some
day, broadcast some of
the ICHAT discussions we during our planning sessions--they are as
exhilarating as those on this forum.

Do look for the announcement of the conference, "Ecologies of
Diversities" to come out in
the next two weeks. The conference will be held here at UCSD from
September 8 (welcoming
reception) to the 13th, 2008.

Let us know what you all would like to propose for a symposia. Your
ideas are very much
in line with one of the emphases we want to give the
conference--systems of collaborative effort.

I look forward to meeting you all,
Olga

ISCAR Planning Committee

>Hi Cathrene-
>
>Lets see what your initiative uncovers. A lot I hope. As to ISCAR, maybe the
>idea of an ISCAR in
>San Diego is just a malicious rumor? (The offer of a cot and key to the lab
>stand, so far no takers)
>
>Here is a small contribution to your project that might be of some interest.
>Check out the first page of the document at
>http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Pubs/CHILDPSY.pdf. Published in 1981. The "author"
>is labelled as lchc, but if you go to the bottom of the first page, there is
>a list of the contributors with non-acronymic names
>Perhaps there are some clues to history in that list?
>mike
>
>PS-- A search on Raeithel on lchc might yield a little information as well.
>
>On 9/7/07, Cathrene Connery <cconnery@ithaca.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone:
>> Thanks to Mike for the interesting graphic by Arne Raethell. It is a
>> beautiful heuristic and psychological tool. The notion of putting
>> together a session at ISCAR on this topic is actually a very good one
>> ...and while the complexity of the task may appear to require the
>> spacial / relational intelligence of a cab driver from Chicago or
>> London, I believe that by elucidating the major thoroughfares, back
>> alleys, and main streets associated with CHAT would invite more
>> participants into the larger discussion.
>>
>> Like Mike, we are all swamped right now and are likely to be heading to
>> the gym or the bar. (Perhaps I am the only person on the East Coast
>> still in her office on Friday at 5:00 p.m.?) However, if the weight of
>> this question could be amicably shouldered by the collective,
>> distributed intelligence and historical memory of this list serve, I
>> think the task is doable. What if everyone took a deep breath, typed
>> the stem "In the beginning...." and wrote in a stream of conscious
>> fashion knowing that there is a younger generation of scholars, an eager
>> audience, who need and look up to your guidance? One or two paragraphs
>> would be enough. Perhaps people on the list serve could agree to
>> disagree in advance without challenging others interpretations? The
>> results might be very interesting: a multi-dimensional prism
>> highlighting the many colors / interpretations of the field.
>>
>> The CHAT community is unique among list serves exhibiting a comraderie
>> and respect other electronic conversations don't reflect. If each
>> person could highlight a piece of the puzzle related to their interest,
>> we'd have a fascinating mosaic from which we could co-construct
>> individual and perhaps, a collective vision. Besides, we don't want
> > Mike to go through life out of breath, experiencing his responsibilities
>> to the list serve like one of those slick TV wrestlers who heaves bodies
> > across the ring. As far as the cot and key are concerned, if there
>> are any opportunities to do post-doc work, please let me know!
>> Happy Friday,
>> Cathrene
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Cole wrote:
>> > HUGE FONT FOR HUGE QUESTION!!!
>> > Now for the small print - read with care)
>> > (I volunteer to do this work on condition that members of xmca complete
>> two
>> > grant proposals required in next few weeks, prepare for,
>> > and teach my fall classes! I will provide a cot and key to LCHC to my
>> > substitute at UCSD during this time period. And when I am done,
>> > like the dragon's teeth that Jason stirred up looking for the golden
>> fleece,
>> > a thousand better informed colleagues will point out the
>> > total idiocy of my interpretation of history)
>> >
>> > Now, feeling all springy and cool after the passing fit of local hot
>> air, I
>> > will say that
>> > I think it would be most useful, if there is genuine interest in such
>> > historical excavation,
>> > exegesis, and exciting prospects, that it be (shhhhh) a collective
>> effort.
>> >
>> > There are books written on this topics, several chapters of books about
>> > which some members
>> > of xmca are presumably knowledgeable because their names are attached to
>> > them, as well as
>> > many papers written on this topic in many languages, and hot disputes
>> about
>> > this topic in several
>> > world capitals as we stare at our screens. There is even a lot to be
>> found
>> > by goggling on lchc.
>> >
>> > For the moment (I am about to join my family after a long day of work) I
>> > append a graphical genaeology (sp?) created by Arne Raeithel that may
>> > indicate some of the territory to be covered in a way some will find
>> useful.
>> > I have a few documents around the lab I can dig up that most will
>> > not know about that are relevant. But this topic, if people really want
>> to
>> > engage it, requires willingness of many to cooperate in a collaborative
>> > archeaology of ideas.
>> >
>> > Perhaps this would make an interesting general symposium at ISCAR next
>> year,
>> > if the organizers, wherever they are hiding, ever get around
>> > to making public their plans for that august occasion.
>> >
>> > mike
>> >
>> >
>> > On 9/6/07, Worthen, Helena Harlow <hworthen@ad.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I second the request from Cathrene Connery and Donald James Cunningham
>> >> to hear from some who have tried how they (you) present CHAT. The
>> >> historical perspective (behaviorism, cognitive science, sociocultural
>> >> perspectives) seems like a necessary one. But what were the problems at
>> >> each point that pushed things onward?
>> >>
>> >> Helena
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Helena Worthen
>> >> Clinical Associate Professor
>> >> Labor Education Program
>> >> Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
>> >> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
>> >> Champaign, IL 61821
>> >> Phone: 217-244-4095
>> >> hworthen@uiuc.edu
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>> >> On Behalf Of Cathrene Connery
>> >> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:59 PM
>> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> >> Subject: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
>> >>
>> >> Tony Whitson wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Don,
>> >>>
>> >>> Sorry for the delay in responding to this -- but I think it's a useful
>> >>>
>> >>> question for discussion in this group.
>> >>>
>> >>> I want to respond quickly on another point before getting to your main
>> >>>
>> >>> question about teaching CHAT.
>> >>>
>> >>> First, you write:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I've taught the usual suspects (behaviorism,
>> >>>> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years and have
>> >>>>
>> >> a
>> >>
>> >>>> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on CHAT.
>> >>>>
>> >>> Where I am, students have learned a story about how once upon a time
>> >>> the world was ruled by the behaviorists, but they've been vanquished
>> >>> by the (scientifically, pedagogically, politically, and morally)
>> >>> superior forces of Cognitive Science. They think that's where the
> > >>> story ends (as in the "End of History" celebrated since Daniel Bell in
>> >>>
>> >>> the early 60's, where history completes itself with the universal
> > >>> triumph of capitalism).
>> >>>
>> >>> I think it's important for students to learn about what's happening
>> >>> "beyond cognitivism." For me, this is not just a matter of theory or
>> >>> intellectual politics: My students just won't understand anything I'm
>> >>> saying or doing unless they understand that I'm addressing an ontology
>> >>>
>> >>> in which cognition cannot be understood except as it is embedded in
>> >>> the broader (not only cognitive) projects and processes of being and
>> >>> becoming. CHAT takes this stance against reductive cognitivism, and
>> >>> CHAT cannot be understood (IMHO) without recognizing this. I think
>> >>> Wenger & the Communities of Practice literature perhaps makes this
>> >>> point more directly and accessibly, although details have not been
>> >>> theorized as extensively as in CHAT. Curriculum theory -- my own home
>> >>> turf -- has always approached education as a matter of ontology, not
>> >>> merely cognition (i.e., not just Knowing, but Being and Becoming).
>> >>>
>> >>> So, I would want to tell the story of behaviorist hegemony giving way
>> >>> to cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn
>> >>> to the broader perspective of social ontology. This is not to say that
>> >>>
>> >>> the reductivist ideology of cognitivISM is replaced by an ideology of
>> >>> postcognitivISM (see my post at http://postcog.net ); Nor is it a call
>> >>>
>> >>> for hegemonic "postcognitivism" in place of hegemonic cognitivism.
>> >>>
>> >>> One good source is Lave, Jean. "Teaching, as Learning, in Practice."
>> >>> Mind, Culture, and Activity 3, no. 3 (1996): 149-64.
>> >>> I think this particular point might come through more strongly in
>> >>> Lave, Jean. "Learning as Participation in Communities of Practice."
>> >>> Paper presented at the American Educational Research Association, San
>> >>> Francisco 1992.
>> >>> (This paper is now linked from http://postcog.net/#Lave . This is the
>> >>> paper Jean presented in the symposium that David Kirshner and I
>> >>> organized, which grew into our book _Situated Cognition_, although a
>> >>> different piece was used as her chapter in the book. The MCA article
>> >>> includes aspects of the AERA paper, although its scope is broader and
>> >>> the social ontology argument may be less central to the complete
>> >>> published article.)
>> >>>
>> >>> With regard to your main question, you write:
>> >>>
>> >>>> [I] was wondering if any of you would be
>> >>>> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present CHAT. I
>> >>>> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested in the
>> >>>> distinction between action and activity or working out the concept of
>> >>>> "object". Or am I wrong?
>> >>>>
>> >>> This could be a very interesting discussion for XMCA.
>> >>> As you suggest, for an undergrad Ed Psych class, it might be best to
>> >>> streamline CHAT a bit. However, I don't think the differentiation
>> >>> among the three levels of activity, action, and operations is
>> >>> dispensable. I think it's necessary to see activities and activity
>> >>> systems emerging on a social/cultural level beyond consciously
>> >>> goal-oriented action, and to see the role of routinized operational
>> >>> activity that does not require conscious attention.
>> >>>
>> >>> It would be helpful to develop introductory approaches for this
>> >>> audience. Starting points could include the resources at
>> >>> http://www.edu.helsinki.fi/activity/pages/chatanddwr/
>> >>> and
>> >>> Roth, Wolff-Michael, and Yew-Jin Lee. ""Vygotsky's Neglected Legacy":
>> >>> Cultural-Historical Activity Theory." Review of Educational Research
>> >>> 77, no. 2 (2007): 186-232.
>> >>> as well as
>> >>> pp. 27-47 in Spinuzzi, Clay. Tracing Genres through Organizations: A
>> >>> Sociocultural Approach to Information Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT
>> >>> Press, 2003.
>> >>> and
>> >>> pp. 29-72 ("Activity Theory in a Nutshell") in Kaptelinin, Victor, and
>> >>>
>> >>> Bonnie A. Nardi. Acting with Technology: Activity Theory and
> > >>> Interaction Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press, 2006.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Cunningham, Donald James wrote:
> > >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> And in a week or so, I will begin teaching an undergraduate class in
>> >>>> "Educational Psychology" for future teachers. It has been a few years
>> >>>> since I taught such a class and was wondering if any of you would be
>> >>>> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present CHAT. I
>> >>>> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested in the
>> >>>> distinction between action and activity or working out the concept of
>> >>>> "object". Or am I wrong? I've taught the usual suspects (behaviorism,
>> >>>> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years and have
>> >>>>
>> >> a
>> >>
>> >>>> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on CHAT.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Don Cunningham
>> >>>> Indiana University
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ancora Imparo!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >>>>
>> >> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>> >>
>> >>>> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 PM
>> >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> >>>> Subject: [xmca] mediational theories of mind: Suggestions requested
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dear Xmca-ites---
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Toward the end of the month I will begin teaching a grad course on
>> >>>> mediational theories of mind.
>> >>>> I would love suggestions for interesting readings.
>> >>>> We will be looking in a sort of "mcLuhanesque" way at the affordances
>> >>>>
>> >> of
>> >>
>> >>>> different kinds of mediators
>> >>>> in human action/activity/mind.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So, language and thought
>> >>>> writing
>> >>>> film
>> >>>> music
>> >>>> tv
>> >>>> rituals
>> >>>> games
>> >>>> .........
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Starting with early 20th century writers of general familiarity to
>> >>>> members
>> >>>> of this list, I have been thinking about including
>> >>>> such works as Cszikentmihalyi, "meaning of things," Turkle's recent
>> >>>> "evocative objects," and perhaps something on mediated
>> >>>> behavior in large groups such as "the wisdom of crowds."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Any and all suggestions warmly welcomed. So much going on its hard to
>> >>>> even
>> >>>> think about how to begin to think about this
>> >>>> upcoming fall!!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> mike
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> xmca mailing list
>> >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> xmca mailing list
>> >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> Tony Whitson
>> >>> UD School of Education
>> >>> NEWARK DE 19716
>> >>>
>> >>> twhitson@udel.edu
>> >>> _______________________________
>> >>>
>> >>> "those who fail to reread
>> >>> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
>> >>> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> xmca mailing list
>> >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >>>
>> >> Hi everyone:
>> >> Tony's eloquent characterization of "behaviorist hegemony giving way to
>> >> cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn to
>> the
>> >>
>> >> broader perspective of social ontology" is well put. How CHAT is being
>> >> presented to the rugged individualists (albeit mythological entities)
>> in
>> >>
>> >> our teacher ed programs is of interest to me as well. It would further
>> >> be helpful for CHAT neophytes like myself to hear how those of you who
>> >> have shaped CHAT view how the domain has genetically evolved and, in
>> >> some cases, splintered (i.e. the differences between sociocultural
>> >> theory vs. activity theory). Thanks for engaging in an interesting
>> >> discussion. I realize this topic has already been hashed out on-line
>> >> previously, but it was Lev that said we only truly know something when
>> >> we view it in motion.
>> >> Cathrene
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Dr. M. Cathrene Connery
>> >> Assistant Professor of Education
> > >> 607.274.7382
>> >> Ithaca College
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> xmca mailing list
>> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> xmca mailing list
>> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> xmca mailing list
>> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. M. Cathrene Connery
>> Assistant Professor of Education
>> 607.274.7382
>> Ithaca College
>>
>>
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-- 
Olga A. Vasquez
Department of Communication
UCSD
9500 Gilman Drive
La Jolla, CA 92093
(858) 534-6284
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