Re: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT

Hi Ana Paula--

*I* want to know more!! Please!
mike
PS- I am (incidentally?) interested in your statement that " every teenager
suffers with this process- [of first love]; What does the word,
"suffer" mean:? I am a...... sort of...... well..... not a lot more than
middle age (??) man and I am married to my 15 year old first love. You think
teenagers know about suffering? Ask my wife!!
:-)

(and, really write more)

On 9/6/07, Ana Paula B. R. Cortez <apbrcortez@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues,
> I have to be honest and tell you that I haven't read the whole
> discussion and I'm not sure if what I'll write has to do with you've been
> writing about, but I felt I could contribute with it.
> I work at a bilingual school in the city of São Paulo, Brazil, and since
> 2005 we've been teaching English and the subjects in English (science, math
> and social studies) with the help of CHAT. Basically (and very
> simplistically), we teach contents inside social activities. Let me give you
> an example: think about the subject, an age group and their grade, let's say
> language, year 6; then, the kinds of social activities in which students
> would be involved in their real lives, not school context (I like the one I
> call "my first love" - every teenager suffers with this process); finally,
> what the actions in this activity were, the subjects involved (all the
> elements of an activity and their roles: what the teacher would say and do
> to support and help adolescents in the process; the students' roles as well
> - sharing feelings and experiences with friends, family, contacting magazine
> "agony aunts" and everything else that it takes), the language (linguistic
> devices, genres,
> whatever) needed, so on an so forth. Then, we organise the whole
> curriculum based on this process, that's it.
> I know I might not have been that clear, but it took me my whole master
> course and my dissertation to develop it, and it's been very successful (I
> presented it in Russia and Finland last year). In case you feel like knowing
> it, I can provide more details. I've been thinking about writing a book to
> share this project and the experience, it might help others too. Would
> anybody like to help me?
> Ana
>
> "Worthen, Helena Harlow" <hworthen@ad.uiuc.edu> escreveu:
> I second the request from Cathrene Connery and Donald James Cunningham
> to hear from some who have tried how they (you) present CHAT. The
> historical perspective (behaviorism, cognitive science, sociocultural
> perspectives) seems like a necessary one. But what were the problems at
> each point that pushed things onward?
>
> Helena
>
>
> Helena Worthen
> Clinical Associate Professor
> Labor Education Program
> Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
> Champaign, IL 61821
> Phone: 217-244-4095
> hworthen@uiuc.edu
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On Behalf Of Cathrene Connery
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:59 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
>
> Tony Whitson wrote:
> > Don,
> >
> > Sorry for the delay in responding to this -- but I think it's a useful
>
> > question for discussion in this group.
> >
> > I want to respond quickly on another point before getting to your main
>
> > question about teaching CHAT.
> >
> > First, you write:
> >> I've taught the usual suspects (behaviorism,
> >> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years and have
> a
> >> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on CHAT.
> >
> > Where I am, students have learned a story about how once upon a time
> > the world was ruled by the behaviorists, but they've been vanquished
> > by the (scientifically, pedagogically, politically, and morally)
> > superior forces of Cognitive Science. They think that's where the
> > story ends (as in the "End of History" celebrated since Daniel Bell in
>
> > the early 60's, where history completes itself with the universal
> > triumph of capitalism).
> >
> > I think it's important for students to learn about what's happening
> > "beyond cognitivism." For me, this is not just a matter of theory or
> > intellectual politics: My students just won't understand anything I'm
> > saying or doing unless they understand that I'm addressing an ontology
>
> > in which cognition cannot be understood except as it is embedded in
> > the broader (not only cognitive) projects and processes of being and
> > becoming. CHAT takes this stance against reductive cognitivism, and
> > CHAT cannot be understood (IMHO) without recognizing this. I think
> > Wenger & the Communities of Practice literature perhaps makes this
> > point more directly and accessibly, although details have not been
> > theorized as extensively as in CHAT. Curriculum theory -- my own home
> > turf -- has always approached education as a matter of ontology, not
> > merely cognition (i.e., not just Knowing, but Being and Becoming).
> >
> > So, I would want to tell the story of behaviorist hegemony giving way
> > to cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn
> > to the broader perspective of social ontology. This is not to say that
>
> > the reductivist ideology of cognitivISM is replaced by an ideology of
> > postcognitivISM (see my post at http://postcog.net ); Nor is it a call
>
> > for hegemonic "postcognitivism" in place of hegemonic cognitivism.
> >
> > One good source is Lave, Jean. "Teaching, as Learning, in Practice."
> > Mind, Culture, and Activity 3, no. 3 (1996): 149-64.
> > I think this particular point might come through more strongly in
> > Lave, Jean. "Learning as Participation in Communities of Practice."
> > Paper presented at the American Educational Research Association, San
> > Francisco 1992.
> > (This paper is now linked from http://postcog.net/#Lave . This is the
> > paper Jean presented in the symposium that David Kirshner and I
> > organized, which grew into our book _Situated Cognition_, although a
> > different piece was used as her chapter in the book. The MCA article
> > includes aspects of the AERA paper, although its scope is broader and
> > the social ontology argument may be less central to the complete
> > published article.)
> >
> > With regard to your main question, you write:
> >> [I] was wondering if any of you would be
> >> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present CHAT. I
> >> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested in the
> >> distinction between action and activity or working out the concept of
> >> "object". Or am I wrong?
> >
> > This could be a very interesting discussion for XMCA.
> > As you suggest, for an undergrad Ed Psych class, it might be best to
> > streamline CHAT a bit. However, I don't think the differentiation
> > among the three levels of activity, action, and operations is
> > dispensable. I think it's necessary to see activities and activity
> > systems emerging on a social/cultural level beyond consciously
> > goal-oriented action, and to see the role of routinized operational
> > activity that does not require conscious attention.
> >
> > It would be helpful to develop introductory approaches for this
> > audience. Starting points could include the resources at
> > http://www.edu.helsinki.fi/activity/pages/chatanddwr/
> > and
> > Roth, Wolff-Michael, and Yew-Jin Lee. ""Vygotsky's Neglected Legacy":
> > Cultural-Historical Activity Theory." Review of Educational Research
> > 77, no. 2 (2007): 186-232.
> > as well as
> > pp. 27-47 in Spinuzzi, Clay. Tracing Genres through Organizations: A
> > Sociocultural Approach to Information Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT
> > Press, 2003.
> > and
> > pp. 29-72 ("Activity Theory in a Nutshell") in Kaptelinin, Victor, and
>
> > Bonnie A. Nardi. Acting with Technology: Activity Theory and
> > Interaction Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press, 2006.
> >
> > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Cunningham, Donald James wrote:
> >
> >> And in a week or so, I will begin teaching an undergraduate class in
> >> "Educational Psychology" for future teachers. It has been a few years
> >> since I taught such a class and was wondering if any of you would be
> >> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present CHAT. I
> >> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested in the
> >> distinction between action and activity or working out the concept of
> >> "object". Or am I wrong? I've taught the usual suspects (behaviorism,
> >> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years and have
> a
> >> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on CHAT.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Don Cunningham
> >> Indiana University
> >>
> >> Ancora Imparo!
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> >> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 PM
> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >> Subject: [xmca] mediational theories of mind: Suggestions requested
> >>
> >> Dear Xmca-ites---
> >>
> >> Toward the end of the month I will begin teaching a grad course on
> >> mediational theories of mind.
> >> I would love suggestions for interesting readings.
> >> We will be looking in a sort of "mcLuhanesque" way at the affordances
> of
> >> different kinds of mediators
> >> in human action/activity/mind.
> >>
> >> So, language and thought
> >> writing
> >> film
> >> music
> >> tv
> >> rituals
> >> games
> >> .........
> >>
> >> Starting with early 20th century writers of general familiarity to
> >> members
> >> of this list, I have been thinking about including
> >> such works as Cszikentmihalyi, "meaning of things," Turkle's recent
> >> "evocative objects," and perhaps something on mediated
> >> behavior in large groups such as "the wisdom of crowds."
> >>
> >> Any and all suggestions warmly welcomed. So much going on its hard to
> >> even
> >> think about how to begin to think about this
> >> upcoming fall!!
> >>
> >> mike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> xmca mailing list
> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> xmca mailing list
> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> >
> > Tony Whitson
> > UD School of Education
> > NEWARK DE 19716
> >
> > twhitson@udel.edu
> > _______________________________
> >
> > "those who fail to reread
> > are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> Hi everyone:
> Tony's eloquent characterization of "behaviorist hegemony giving way to
> cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn to the
>
> broader perspective of social ontology" is well put. How CHAT is being
> presented to the rugged individualists (albeit mythological entities) in
>
> our teacher ed programs is of interest to me as well. It would further
> be helpful for CHAT neophytes like myself to hear how those of you who
> have shaped CHAT view how the domain has genetically evolved and, in
> some cases, splintered (i.e. the differences between sociocultural
> theory vs. activity theory). Thanks for engaging in an interesting
> discussion. I realize this topic has already been hashed out on-line
> previously, but it was Lev that said we only truly know something when
> we view it in motion.
> Cathrene
>
> --
> Dr. M. Cathrene Connery
> Assistant Professor of Education
> 607.274.7382
> Ithaca College
>
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>
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Received on Thu Sep 6 18:50 PDT 2007