Re: [xmca] Fundamental Questions

To all interested in following this film up, it is available on netflix.
mike

On 9/5/07, Worthen, Helena Harlow <hworthen@ad.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> Bruce, thank you for this information. It adds a whole new dimension to
> my understanding of the film. Especially the scene in which the workers
> carry equipment out into the yard and are told to smash it up with
> sledgehammers.
>
> Helena
>
>
> Helena Worthen
> Clinical Associate Professor
> Labor Education Program
> Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
> Champaign, IL 61821
> Phone: 217-244-4095
> hworthen@uiuc.edu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On Behalf Of Bruce Robinson
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 1:10 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Fundamental Questions
>
> I knew the person who wrote the 'Navigators', Rob Dawber. He was a
> working class marxist activist who when he graduated got a job working
> on the railways around 1980 and the film is based on his experiences of
> how things changed over the years. (You can catch a glimpse of him in
> one scene.) Sadly he contracted mesothelioma from being told to demolish
>
> buildings containing asbestos. He kept on fighting for adequate
> compensation which he finally won in the courts shortly before he died
> (about two years later than predicted).
>
> There are obituaries here:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4140804,00.html
> http://www.le.ac.uk/press/press/baftafor.html
>
> Bruce Robinson
>
>
> Worthen, Helena Harlow wrote:
> > I had been reading this thread, about individual/collective, with a
> > sense of detachment until this morning when I realized that a film we
> > showed in a class last night provides an instance of the process of
> > separating the individual from the collective. The "individual" and
> > "collective" aren't abstract, either, and both are fully dramatized.
> >
> > It's Ken Loach's 2001 film The Navigators, about a team of railroad
> > workers experiencing the privatization and break-up of British Rail
> > under Margaret Thatcher. The workers have functioned in this heavily
> > unionized environment for -- well, the oldest shows a photo of himself
> > with his team that has to be 45 years old -- and they possess all the
> > social norms of that very collective environment; one refuses
> > opportunities to work any overtime as long as others "are on the
> dole."
> > One by one, they learn in different ways what the new work system will
> > require of them, namely, to act not as a collective but as
> individuals.
> > It's a brilliant film. You can chart this process as it unrolls step
> by
> > step, differently with each character.
> >
> > Helena
> >
> >
> > Helena Worthen
> > Clinical Associate Professor
> > Labor Education Program
> > Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
> > 504 E. Armory, Room 227
> > Champaign, IL 61821
> > Phone: 217-244-4095
> > hworthen@uiuc.edu
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Mike Cole
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:10 PM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Fundamental Questions
> >
> > Stick with it on the ontology issue, Michael. Its a life time's
> > preoccupation and a good one.
> > If this thread continues, we are going to need to consider the fact
> that
> > as
> > social beings we are
> > also BIOLOGICAL beings (as well as CULTURAL) beings, and these 3
> factors
> > are
> > all in play.
> > With CSCL as a framework you are not likely to be dealing with rocks
> and
> > trees and water....
> > (not that the problems go away).
> >
> > As to the individual|collective antinomy, (thanks tony!), the fact
> that
> > Anglo Americans are way
> > way out there on the individualism side of things as Paul points out
> is
> > important for all of us
> > to keep in mind (without going to the opposite extreme which has its
> > mirror
> > image problems)
> > mike
> >
> > On 9/4/07, Michael A. Evans <mae@vt.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Mike and All,
> >>
> >> Thank you very much for the links and resources - the chapter
> provided
> >> below
> >> is especially helpful for preparing to respond to the question of
> >> ontology,
> >> the "basic concept of reality"...chapter 3 of the same source
> >>
> > addresses
> >
> >> epistemology, which I'll look at as well...
> >>
> >> I may be misguided here, but when I referred to social constructivism
> >>
> > I
> >
> >> was
> >> thinking (primarily) of an epistemology, how one comes to know and
> >>
> > what
> >
> >> that
> >> knowledge is, that was equally influenced by social interaction and
> >> cultural
> >> context - thus, my students and I are exploring intermental
> >>
> > development of
> >
> >> higher order thinking, this is the focus of Stahl's text...another
> >>
> > concept
> >
> >> we're exploring is "intersubjective meaning making," which Suthers
> >>
> > (2006)
> >
> >> has proposed as an important research agenda for CSCL:
> >> http://tinyurl.com/3agcgl
> >>
> >> The dialectical unity of opposites (say, individual vs. collective)
> is
> >> very
> >> intriguing as a line of thought and is supported in one of our
> >>
> > readings
> >
> >> from
> >> this week: Dalgarno, B. (2001). Interpretations of constructivism and
> >> consequences for computer assisted learning. British Journal of
> >> Educational
> >> Technology, 32(2), 183-194.
> >>
> >> In this piece, Dalgarno cites Moshman (1982) to identify 3 strands of
> >> constructivism - endogenous, exogenous, and dialectical, dialectical
> >> constructivism defined as an approach that "emphasises the role of
> >>
> > social
> >
> >> interaction in the learner's knowledge construction process, leading
> >>
> > to an
> >
> >> emphasis on cooperative and collaborative learning strategies" (p.
> >>
> > 190)...
> >
> >> I must say that what I found encouraging during last night's class
> was
> >> that
> >> although students were admittedly uncomfortable with concepts such as
> >>
> > "a
> >
> >> world without withins," they were willing to "hang in there" to
> >>
> > explore
> >
> >> the
> >> possibilities of a non-dualistic approach...
> >>
> >> Thanks, again!
> >> Michael~
> >> --
> >> ____________________________________
> >> michael a. evans
> >> assistant professor
> >> 306 war memorial hall (0313)
> >> department of learning sciences & technologies
> >> school of education
> >> virginia tech
> >> email: mae@vt.edu
> >> phone: +1 540.231.3743
> >> fax: +1 540.231.9075
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >>> Reply-To: <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> >>> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >>> Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:28:05 -0700
> >>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >>> Subject: [xmca] Fundamental Questions
> >>>
> >>> We all learn through teaching, Mike, and you are lucky to have
> >>>
> > students
> >
> >>> asking fundamental questions.
> >>>
> >>> I am not sure precisely what you mean by social constructivism, and
> >>>
> > will
> >
> >> see
> >>
> >>> what others have to say since I am guessing that the answers are
> >>>
> > going
> >
> >> to
> >>
> >>> vary a lot. (And I have a LOT of reading to do to get ready to teach
> >>> classes in a couple of weeks!, and Tony's query re joint mediated
> >>>
> >> activity
> >>
> >>> to deal with!). So I took the following
> >>> dodge thinking it might be helpful to you.
> >>>
> >>> 1) I googled leontiev ontology and found a lot of info. This site
> >>>
> >> directly
> >>
> >>> addresses your question from the
> >>> perspective of a leading activity theorist.
> >>> http://informationr.net/ir/12-3/Karpatschof/Chapter_2.pdf
> >>>
> >>> 2) I googled the lchc site itself (google on home page) for
> >>> individual/collective. There has been a lot
> >>> of discussion here about that. (I do not know the way to create that
> >>> directly vertical symbol that michael
> >>> roth and others do to indicate a dialectic unity of opposites).
> >>>
> > Anyway,
> >
> >>> googling just the lchc site
> >>> works well.
> >>>
> >>> good luck!
> >>> mikec
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> xmca mailing list
> >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>
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> >>
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> >
>
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Received on Wed Sep 5 11:58 PDT 2007