Re: [xmca] Point of view in writing

Paul

     I agree with these sentiments. However, I might add that reading
any substantial thinker requires the somewhat the same mettle. There
is a tendency among us academics to categorize other scholars with
some label rather than read them thoughtfully - this does not mean
agreeing - and savoring certain insights (which may have been
intended or not). I sometimes think - as I've to fight the
inclination in myself - this is a way to excuse careful reading.
    I've been wanting to join in this conversation from Jay's first
post as phenomenology is something I think about a bit, but now that
Mike has changed the heading (smile), perhaps I shouldn't. In any
case, I don't have the time right now, but to say that the third
person business is something those that do ethnomethodology think
about somewhat and that the title to Gadamer's Truth and Method is a
somewhat joke. Oh, some older (and perhaps newer) things by Don Ihde
might be considered as Husserl lighter and, I think, are insightful.

Ed Wall

>mike,
>
> almost anything is lighter than Husserl, reading him requires heavy mettle.
>
> floating on a feather's edge between the flash of light and the thunder.
>
> paul
>
>Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> Its a great topic, Sonja--
>
>There is an interesting first person pov film, lady in the lake, which is
>not all that sucessful, but an interesting thought experiment.
>And lighter than Husserl
>:-)
>mike
>
>On 8/17/07, Sonja Baumer wrote:
>>
>> I apologize for just bumping into this discussion without reading all
>> previous posts. together with marc davis i am writing a paper on "point of
>> view" in online videos and especially on youtube.
>> our paper brings together both literary and film theories of POV in a
>> dialogue with phenomenology. i realize that film theory can be extremely
>> valuable resources for this discussion, especially since many qualitative
>> researchers nowadays collect ethnographic video data.
>> any interest for pursuing that line of discussion?
>> sonja baumer
>>
>> On 8/16/07, Paul Dillon
>wrote:
>> >
>> > Kimberly, Mike,
>> >
>> > Although Husserl seems to have fbeen relegated to the dumpster of
>> > collective memory, a lot of his work was concerned with describing the
>> > "subjective" (noetic) state of mind correlated with the experience of any
>> > "objective" (noematic). I always found him hard to read except for the
>> > work on "internal time consciousness" but there are some studies
>>that really
>> > illustrate this method, the titles and authors of which seem to
>>have fallen
>> > into the dumpster of my own memory. But the phenomenologists in general
>> > have a lot to offer on the problem of providing a good description of the
>> > situation of the observer vis a vis what s/he observed
>> >
>> > Paul
>> >
>> > Mike Cole wrote:
>> > Hi Kim
>> > I think all methods have pitfalls. I was trying, unsuccessfully it turns
>> > out, to articulate
>> > a pitfall I personally encountered.
>> >
>> > If this is of future interests, why not check out Cultural Psych and see
>> > what you do and don't
>> > like about that way of wrting about the subjects there addressed and
>> > send
>> > along something
>> > to read of yours. Perhaps we can ground things more effectively that
>> > way.
>> >
>> > mike
>> >
>> > On 8/16/07, Kimberly wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi Mike,
>> > >
>> > > I'm a little confused by your response. It almost sounds as if you are
> > > > saying a third person approach doesn't have the same "potential
>> > pitfalls"
>> > > that you mentioned. My understanding is that data collection must be
>> > > systematic, thorough, and well-organized no matter what the writing
>> > > approach
>> > > used. Fieldnotes, personal notes, transcriptions, triangulation
>> > through
>> > > correspondence, public notices, student work/journals, interviews,
>> > etc.
>> > > are
>> > > the empirical bases for the interpretation of the data. First person
>> > > doesn't necessarily mean just a retrospective account or memoir. I
> > > think
>> > > it
>> > > can be just as systematic, rigorous, "objective," and
>> > empirically-based as
>> > > any third person approach. Writing in first person, however, puts the
>> > > inevitable subjectivity of the author up front on the table. I think,
>> > > too,
>> > > the personal voice (at least in education) may help to bridge the gap
>> > > between researcher and practitioner.
>> > >
>> > > Kim
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 8/16/07 11:36 AM, "Mike Cole" wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Kimberly (and Paul) (and)
>> > > >
>> > > > I started this with a new header because the previous notes were
>> > > carrying
>> > > > very long string of prior notes in them. Something to
>> > > > do with problems Bruce wrote about yesterday I think.
>> > > >
>> > > > If there is disagreement about the disutilities of writing in pseudo
>> > > third
>> > > > person, as if objective, fashion grovelling on our bellies,
>> > handcuffed,
>> > > > etc, in order to publish someone will have to defend such forms of
>> > > behavior.
>> > > >
>> > > > My own view is the the method of explication should fit the subject
>> > > matter
>> > > > being discussed. You can get a feel for how I mix the two genres
>> > > > in Cultural Psychology.
>> > > >
>> > > > In so far as I am using method of long term participant observation,
>> > > which
>> > > > is one approach I use to some of the topics I work on, I find that a
>> >
>> > > > potential pitfall of the first person approach arises if one fails
>> > to
>> > > create
>> > > > systematic fieldnotes of one's activities, interpretations, guesses
>> > > about
>> > > > what going on, etc. from the beginning of the research up to the
>> > point
>> > > where
>> > > > one is writing the account. This hit me most forcefully when
>> > > > trying to account for three years of work creating and trying to
>> > sustain
>> > > > afterschool activities at four sites here near UCSD. At the end of
>> > the
>> > > > period I wrote up an account of what I thought had occurred. I
>> > believed
>> > > it.
>> > > > Then I listened to audiotapes of discussions I had had with key
>> > > > players three years earlier during which we planned what we would be
>> >
>> > > doing
>> > > > and what we thought had to be done to make the work
>> > > > successful. I was stunned in listening to the tapes, to learn how
>> > much
>> > > my
>> > > > retrospective account had selectively forgotten lots of events,
>> > > > lots of pointers (had I been able to interpret them properly) to
>> > > upcomping
>> > > > problems and changes.
>> > > >
>> > > > So, when using first person approaches, its nice to have lots of
>> > bits of
>> > > > "objectified" materials, including one's own fieldnotes and notes
>> > > > to colleagues (email is great in this respect) as a materialized
>> > record
>> > > of
>> > > > what you USED to think, or what you USED to believe was important,
>> > etc.
>> > > >
>> > > > And, in addition, including information that does not arise from
>> > sources
>> > > you
>> > > > helped to create is also useful as a way of triangulating and
>> > > > being self critical.
>> > > >
>> > > > mike
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > xmca mailing list
>> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > >
>> > >
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Received on Fri Aug 17 17:27 PDT 2007