Re: [xmca] epigenesis

Hi Emily,
Thanks for the note. Glad to hear your partner has relief from his
condition. Please thank him for his service to our country. For me,
the epigenetic issue centers on the structural transformation of the
cells as an adaptation to extreme events. However, when we venture into
notions of an "inherited racial memory" or cultural memory", I get a
little nervous. I see the dialectic of nature and nurture here to be
the dynamic at work instead of a Jungian perspective on cultural
memory. Jung was especially way off in his view of women in his
construct of "cultural consciousness".

Epigenesis is an intriguing concept that leads me way out on the edge of
my knowledge base. However, if we look at epigenesis from a biological
perspective, (and I can say this as an individual with Celtic roots) it
certainly explains why the Irish have a tendency for alcoholism. In
another strange example, my own father died from mad cow disease. He
did not travel outside the country and probably lived on junk food.
After his death, it was postulated that he either 1) ate contaminated
beef which the Cattlemen's Association denied having entered the U.S. at
the time or 2) he inherited a gene from my ancestors who used to eat the
brains of warriors they had killed. An interesting case to consider.

By the way, most Americans who are diagnosed with Creutzfeldt-Jacob
disease (the human equivalent of Mad Cow disease) are diagnosed with
Altzheimers so they are able to be buried by funeral homes who would
otherwise reject the preparation of the body.

Cathrene

Emily Duvall wrote:
> Thanks Cathrene...
> Yes, indeed, the common response is to focus on the brain and serotonin
> levels... and Gary does take Zoloft...:-)
> However, Martin has peaked my curiosity with regard to DNA methylation
> along the lines of the inheritability due to the changes in somatic
> cells.
> Several things are interest to me here... yes, my daughter Isis, but
> also the nature of 'inherited racial memory' or 'cultural memory'.
> Any thoughts?
>
> ~ Em
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On Behalf Of Cathrene Connery
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:48 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] epigenesis
>
> Hi Emily et al.,
> My VERY UNscientific understanding is that when individuals are exposed
> to repeated, long-term,random events in which their mental and physical
> lives are continually threatened, the make up of the brain is changed at
>
> the chemical level. The neurons are flooded with hormones, altering
> synaptic abilities. The use of serotonin uptake drugs (SSRs like
> Zoloft) helps to restore electrical impulses so the individual is not
> arrested in a constant state of fight or flight. There was a group of
> researchers working on this area at the University of Washington in the
> late 90's. I don't remember their names but I want to say that Dr. Lori
> Rollner was a part of the group. Perhaps you can contact the chair of
> their psychiatry department. I wish I could be of more help.
> Best,
> Cathrene
>
> Emily Duvall wrote:
>
>> HI Martin and all,
>> Please forgive me for not following all this - the defense is coming
>>
> up
>
>> - but could I get a little more information on the PBS documentary?
>>
> I'm
>
>> particularly interested in the idea the PTSD could be 'inherited'. I
>> know that the change in the physiology/chemical make-up of my
>>
> husband's
>
>> brain (he was in recon, in Viet Nam) is something that the PTSD
>> treatment folks at the VA have emphasized. I hadn't thought about this
>> at the molecular level in quite this way, however. I would be very
>> interested in learning more about this.
>> I'm also thinking about this in terms of the child-soldiers.
>> You mention the methylation of the DNA - I know very little about
>>
> this,
>
>> but can the sheath be regenerated?
>> ~ Emily
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>> On Behalf Of Martin Packer
>> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:32 AM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] epigenesis
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> The PBS documentary includes discussion of a retrospective analysis of
>> data
>> over at least 3 generations in a relatively isolated Scandanavian
>> community:
>> in particular, records of births and deaths (with cause of death) and
>> annual
>> harvest yields. The focus of the documentary was not merely on the
>> epigenetic pathways of individual development (e.g. that genetically
>> identical twins diverge in their patterns of gene expression over the
>> years), which is a notion that's been around for a while, but on
>> mechanisms
>> of *inheritance* of epigenetic pathways. So post-traumatic stress in
>>
> one
>
>> generation may well be *inherited* by children and even
>>
> grand-children.
>
>> To
>> my knowledge this is a new idea, and one for which the mechanisms are
>> now
>> being worked out (methylation of the DNA, I think).
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On 10/26/07 1:49 PM, "Paul Dillon" <phd_crit_think@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm looking forward to learning mmore about the research in that
>>>
> field
>
>>>
>>>
>> by
>>
>>
>>> definition it would seem to require a study that tracked three or
>>>
>>>
>> more
>>
>>
>>> generations of families at both that genetic and socio-cultural
>>>
> levels
>
>>>
>>>
>> which
>>
>>
>>> is 90 years for humans populations. That's long after I'll be
>>>
>>>
>> following
>>
>>
>>> all of this. :)
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruce Robinson <bruce@brucerob.eu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Paul Dillon wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jay,
>>>>
>>>> Any possible answer your question " . . . why is the model of
>>>> gene-determinism so appealing, almost a religion today, both among
>>>>
>>>>
>> molecular
>>
>>
>>>> biologists and the lay public? Why has it been so easy for the media
>>>>
>>>>
>> to
>>
>>
>>>> spread this gospel?"
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I was pleasantly surprised to hear human genome mapper (and would be
>>> privatiser) Craig Venter dissociate himself from crude genetic
>>> determinism in an interview he gave to the BBC Today programme. He
>>>
>>>
>> came
>>
>>
>>> out against the one to one 'a gene for...' idea, talked about the
>>>
>>>
>> social
>>
>>
>>> environment of development interacting with genetic tendencies and
>>>
>>>
>> being
>>
>>
>>> more important in a whole range of behaviour, as well as, in a
>>>
> comment
>
>>> on the Watson controversy, describing race as a social construct with
>>>
>>>
>> no
>>
>>
>>> scientific basis. So there clearly are exceptions. But I do accept
>>>
>>>
>> that
>>
>>
>>> genetic determinism is pervasive and think Jay is right to point to
>>>
>>>
>> the
>>
>>
>>> resulting fatalism about social inequality as a cause, perhaps less
>>>
> as
>
>>> an excuse for people to do nothing and more as a justification of why
>>> things are the way they are in the first place. This is not new -
>>>
> Marx
>
>>> pointed to Darwin's drawing on Malthus and his picture of nature
>>> reflecting the model of competitive capitalism.
>>>
>>> Bruce R
>>>
>>>
>>>> would seem to require an adequate theory of why any "knowledge
>>>> system/ideology" is dominant in a given society at a given time.
>>>>
> From
>
>>>>
>>>>
>> the
>>
>>
>>>> perspective of the classic Marxist model, i.e., "dominance of the
>>>>
>>>>
>> ideas of
>>
>>
>>>> the dominant economic forces" , the dominance of the genetic
>>>>
> metaphor
>
>>>>
>>>>
>> in
>>
>>
>>>> contemporary capitalist societies seems to provide a text book case.
>>>>
>>>>
>> The
>>
>>
>>>> primary client for the products of the bio-technology and
>>>>
>>>>
>> pharmaceutical
>>
>>
>>>> industries in which most geneticists is the health care industry
>>>>
> (15%
>
>>>>
>>>>
>> of US
>>
>>
>>>> GDP) , then there's the GMO dominance in capitalist agriculture.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Along with
>>
>>
>>>> cybenetics , genetic technologies , suffuse the fabric of modern
>>>>
>>>>
>> economic
>>
>>
>>>> activity.
>>>>
>>>> But that's only a formal cause and although probably a necessary
>>>>
>>>>
>> condition
>>
>>
>>>> for the ideological dominance of some branch of knowledge, still
>>>>
>>>>
>> insufficient
>>
>>
>>>> to answer your question. I think one of the effective causes at the
>>>> psychological level , might have to do with the utopian futures
>>>>
>>>>
>> genetics
>>
>>
>>>> provides the "cult of eternal youth" , likewsie a root metaphor of
>>>>
>>>>
>> popular
>>
>>
>>>> consumer culture. The promised developments of genetic technologies
>>>>
>>>>
>> certainly
>>
>>
>>>> have that Utopian dimension, better futures quality that makes of
>>>>
>>>>
>> good
>>
>>
>>>> ideology.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
>

-- 
Dr. M. Cathrene Connery
Assistant Professor of Education
607.274.7382
Ithaca College
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