Yes, James is in there alright.
What about contemporary empirical research on these issues?
mike
On 2/12/07, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
>
> Mike
>
> He seems to be trying here to get at the idea of "steams of
> consciousness" and James's idea of "flights and perchings." He ends
> this section by remarking "With conflict of habits and release of
> impulse there is conscious search."
>
> Ed
>
> >Interesting cross-polinating, Ed. I think the absolute
> >necessity of constant adjustment (in walking, for example)
> >is a design feature of human life (and not just human).
> >Perfect coordination can be striven for and approximated,
> >but not maintained for more than a short moment or the
> >result is loss of consciousness/death of sensation, maybe
> >something like Freudian death wish.
> >mike
> >
> >On 2/12/07, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>Dewey remarks in Human Nature (178-179) that
> >>consciousness might be thought of "as a kind of
> >>disease, since we have no consciousness of bodily
> >>or mental organs as long as they work at ease in
> >>perfect health." [As a somewhat aside: he goes
> >>on, "The idea of disease is, however, aside from
> >>the point, unless we are pessimistic enough to
> >>regard every slip in total adjustment of a person
> >>to his surroundings as something abnormal-a point
> >>of view which ... would identify well-being with
> >>perfect automatism. The truth is that in every
> >>waking moment, the complete balance of the
> >>organism and its environment is constantly
> >>interfered with and is constantly restored."]
> >>
> >>Would one, for example in Swedish, use "knowing
> >>together with" to translate this or does it just
> >>become incoherent?
> >>
> >>Ed Wall
> >>
> >>>Just a note from The North
> >>>
> >>>consciousness in Swedish is MED-VETANDE (knowing
> >>>together WITH) i.e. impossible for one -
> >>>possible for two (Feuerbach in T&L)
> >>>
> >>>Leif
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>2007-02-12 kl. 06.09 skrev Mike Cole:
> >>>
> >>>>co-co-co-coriko-cu!
> >>>>mike
> >>>>
> >>>>On 2/11/07, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>But "recognition" (in the relevant usages) comes from "cognate" -
> >>co-born,
> >>>>>i.e., of the same kin.
> >>>>>Andy
> >>>>>At 10:32 PM 11/02/2007 -0500, you wrote:
> >>>>>>Did you know that the root word both for the English KNOWLEDGE and
> >>Slavic
> >>>>>>"ZNANYE", Latin "GNOSIS" is the same Sanskrit "jna"? (remark
> >>>>>>CO-GNITION!!= SO-ZNANYE)
> >>>>>>Here is an interesting etymological view:
> >>>>>>http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=know&searchmode=none
> >>>>>><http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=know&searchmode=none>
> >>>>>>Ana
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Mike Cole wrote:
> >>>>>>>OK, here is the message on this topic. It has not appeared on the
> >>>>>archive
> >>>>>>>where I looked for it. I
> >>>>>>>am trying to figure out why. Thanks to Ed Wall for pointing me to
> it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>There is a cluster of messages from David, Vera, Ana and Martin and
> >>??
> >>>>>here
> >>>>>>>that seems to me
> >>>>>>>especially important and potentially generative.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Referring to the note I sent earlier with the analysis of the
> Russian
> >>>>>who
> >>>>>>>also knew Sanskrit, I questioned
> >>>>>>>the issue of so- as a prefix in Russian. ditto o-
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>And when we combine the two prefixes ( so-znanie/ o-so-znanie) what
> >>is
> >>>>>being
> >>>>>>>created. Peter? MGU Aspiranti?
> >>>>>>>Anna S? ???
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>znanie =knowledge
> >>>>>>>so-znanie ~ co knowledge ????
> >>>>>>>o-so-znanie ~~ about-co-knowledge, concerning-co-knowledge???????
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>mike
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>>>>From: Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu>
> >>>>>>>Date: Feb 9, 2007 6:36 PM
> >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [xmca] Harried instructor seeks words of wisdom
> >>>>>>>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Vera,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I would certainly be interested in hearing more about the
> >>distinctions
> >>>>>>>you're making between responsiveness, awareness and consciousness.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>To add to the (my) confusion, digging through my notes I've come
> >>across
> >>>>>the
> >>>>>>>following note by translator Norris Minick in Thinking & Speech (p.
> >>388,
> >>>>>n.
> >>>>>>>12):
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"By the phrase 'conscious awareness' we gloss the Russian
> osaznanie,
> >>>>>which V
> >>>>>>>carefully and consistently uses and distinguishes from the term
> >>soznanie
> >>>>>or
> >>>>>>>'consciousness.' Vygotsky clarifies the difference between the two
> at
> >>>>>>>several points in the textS the earlier translation of this volume
> >>>>>(SThought
> >>>>>>>and languageS) rendered both terms as 'consciousness,' introducing
> a
> >>>>>>>confusion not to be found in the original Russian text."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The links to neuroscience are very interesting. If I understand it
> >>>>>>>correctly, Vygotsky's psychology was the study of consciousness and
> >>>>>>>physiology (the material basis of consciousness). The division of
> >>labor
> >>>>>that
> >>>>>>>developed between Vygotsky and Luria speaks to this, I think.
> Modern
> >>>>>>>neuroscience too often wants to treat consciousness as an
> >>epiphenomenon,
> >>>>>but
> >>>>>>>Vygotsky clearly viewed it as having a purpose: it has evolved
> >>because
> >>>>>it
> >>>>>>>serves an important function. After my last message I recalled
> >>>>>Vygotsky's
> >>>>>>>insistence that consciousness appears when action meets an
> obstacle.
> >>I'm
> >>>>>>>pretty confident he says this as early as Educational Psychology,
> and
> >>as
> >>>>> >>late as T&S, but I can't track down specific citations at this
> >>moment.
> >>>>>And
> >>>>>>>this links to David's comments about volition. Consciousness occurs
> >>when
> >>>>>our
> >>>>>>>prereflective action is blocked, and we must deliberate, look
> around,
> >>>>>and
> >>>>>>>consider alternatives. A two-way link to volition: Cs arises from
> >>>>>practical
> >>>>>>>activity, and serves to reorganize that activity. Cs gives us the
> >>will
> >>>>>to do
> >>>>>>>what is hard to do, what needs to be done, what at first grasp
> seems
> >>>>>>>impossible to do.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>And while I'm cutting and pasting from my notes, this is from the
> >>last
> >>>>>pages
> >>>>>>>of Educational Psychology:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Man has set himself the goal of becoming master of his own
> feelings,
> >>of
> >>>>>>>lifting the instincts to the heights of consciousness and making
> them
> >>>>>>>transparent, of stretching the thread of will into what is
> concealed
> >>and
> >>>>>>>into the underground, and to thereby lift himself up to a new
> stage,
> >>to
> >>>>>>>create a 'higher' sociociological type, a, so to speak, super-man."
> >>351
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>None of this gives my students a *definition* of consciousness. But
> >>>>>perhaps
> >>>>>>>one has to be satisfied with a *history* of it, a story that
> >>describes
> >>>>>how
> >>>>>>>it comes into being and then departs again.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Martin
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On 2/9/07 11:24 AM, "Vera Steiner" <vygotsky@unm.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>I sent my message on consciousness before reading Martin's
> "harried
> >>>>>>>>instructor seeks words of wisdom." It is a fine discussion, and my
> >>>>>>>>apologies for not referring to it in my somewhat differently
> focused
> >>>>>>>>comments.In my class last night, I tried to differentiate between
> >>>>>>>>responsiveness, awareness and consciousness, a hard task, but if
> >>anyone
> >>>>>>>>is interested, I would be willing to struggle with it some more in
> >>our
> >>>>>>>>discussions. Right now, I have to leave the house and the
> computer,
> >>>>>>>>Vera
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Martin Packer wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Trying to get the worms out of one can I seem to have opened
> >>another,
> >>>>>but
> >>>>>>>I
> >>>>>>>>>think David may have rescued me before I started to ask. Trying
> to
> >>>>>>>explain
> >>>>>>>>>why studying consciousness was important to Vygotsky, I started
> >>with
> >>>>>the
> >>>>>>>>>assertion that for him (and me too) consciousness is in our
> >>>>>interaction
> >>>>>>>with
> >>>>>>>>>the world. I suppose that all animals have consciousness, perhaps
> >>even
> >>>>>>>>>plants in some sense, since they respond to changes in the
> >>environment
> >>>>>>>(day
> >>>>>>>>>& night; the movement of the sun) and so must sense these in some
> >>way.
> >>>>>>>But
> >>>>>>>>>human consciousness is, one supposes, much more complex, and it
> >>>>>develops.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>If consciousness is in our interactions, not in our heads, that
> is
> >>>>>>>helpful
> >>>>>>>>>when we are trying to avoid dualistic thinking. And, yes,
> Vygotsky
> >>>>>was
> >>>>>>>>>trying to give a materialistic account of consciousness, which at
> >>>>>first
> >>>>>>>>>seems pretty contradictory.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Psychology today generally doesn1t consider consciousness: in one
> >>>>>class
> >>>>>>>one
> >>>>>>>>>might study memory, in another perception, in a third language,
> and
> >>so
> >>>>>>>on.
> >>>>>>>>>> From Vygotsky1s point of view this has divided up something
> >>unitary
> >>>>>-
> >>>>>>>after
> >>>>>>>>>all, in my conscious existence I am thinking at one moment,
> >>>>>remembering
> >>>>>>>>>something the next, then imagining something, talking, ... and
> even
> >>>>>this
> >>>>>>>>>account divides consciousness up too much. So the proper study of
> >>>>>>>>>consciousness is the study of all these functions in their
> >>>>>>>>>interrelationship. It is, I said, only to keep things simple that
> >>>>>>>Vygotsky
> >>>>>>>>>focuses mainly on thinking and talking in the book we are
> reading.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I said some more. I said it in (bad) Spanish and now I can1t
> >>remember
> >>>>>it
> >>>>>>>in
> >>>>>>>>>English!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>And they said, okay, very good, but what was Vygotsky1s
> definition
> >>of
> >>>>>>>>>'consciousness1? Give us a definition of consciousness, and keep
> it
> >>>>>>>concise
> >>>>>>>>>and formal. They said this with a (collective) smile, so I know
> >>they
> >>>>>>>weren1t
> >>>>>>>>>expecting a dictionary definition, even before reading David1s
> >>>>>message.
> >>>>>>>But
> >>>>>>>>>I wasn1t able to give a (good) answer.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>David, for me, too, consciousness is not cognition. I completely
> >>agree
> >>>>>>>with
> >>>>>>>>>you that volition is crucial for Vygotsky. (For example, I think
> >>>>>>>Vygotsky1s
> >>>>>>>>>position on scientific concepts is misunderstood when people say
> >>that
> >>>>> >>such
> >>>>>>>>>concepts enable self-control; V is clear that it1s the other way
> >>>>>round:
> >>>>>>>>>self-control, mastery of one1s own psychological functions, makes
> >>such
> >>>>>>>>>concepts possible.) But I1m not entirely comfortable *equating*
> >>>>>>>>>consciousness with volition. I guess for a first shot I1d say
> that
> >>>>>>>volition
> >>>>>>>>>is a relation between consciousness and functions that lack
> >>>>>>>consciousness.
> >>>>>>>>>One thing I like about this formulation is that it includes the
> >>>>>>>possibility
> >>>>>>>>>that consciousness is social, intersubjective, and that
> >>self-control
> >>>>>has
> >>>>>>>its
> >>>>>>>>>roots in control-by-others. And I do believe that this was
> >>Vygotsky1s
> >>>>>>>>>position (in-itself; for-others; for-itself). But - having put it
> >>this
> >>>>>>>way -
> >>>>>>>>>one has to distinguish carefully between consciousness and
> >>>>>>>>>self-consciousness, no?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Enough for one day. I1m off for enchiladas. More words of wisdom
> >>from
> >>>>>>>XMCA1s
> >>>>>>>>>collective consciousness will be much appreciated!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Martin
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>p.s I think Osimbologia may be a Nahuatl word. ;) I saw a
> >>wonderful
> >>>>>>>>>Spanish-Nahuatl dictionary the other day. Any takers?
> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>>>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>//
> >>>>>>
> >>
>
> >>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>/Ana Marjanovic-Shane, Ph.D./
> >>>>>>/151 W. Tulpehocken St./
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>/Philadelphia//, PA 19144///
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>/(h) 215-843-2909/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>/ana@zmajcenter.org <mailto:ana@zmajcenter.org>/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>/http://www.speakeasy.org/~anamshane <
> >>>>>http://www.speakeasy.org/%7Eanamshane>/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Hegel Summer School 16/17th February 2007. The Roots of Critical
> Theory
> >>-
> >>>>>Resisting Neoconservatism Today
> >>>>>http://home.mira.net/~andy/seminars/16022007.htm
> >>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>xmca mailing list
> >>>>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>xmca mailing list
> >>>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> >>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>xmca mailing list
> >>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>xmca mailing list
> >>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >xmca mailing list
> >xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Mar 01 2007 - 10:36:50 PST