co-co-co-coriko-cu!
mike
On 2/11/07, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> But "recognition" (in the relevant usages) comes from "cognate" - co-born,
> i.e., of the same kin.
> Andy
> At 10:32 PM 11/02/2007 -0500, you wrote:
> >Did you know that the root word both for the English KNOWLEDGE and Slavic
> >"ZNANYE", Latin "GNOSIS" is the same Sanskrit "jna"? (remark
> >CO-GNITION!!= SO-ZNANYE)
> >Here is an interesting etymological view:
> >http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=know&searchmode=none
> ><http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=know&searchmode=none>
> >Ana
> >
> >Mike Cole wrote:
> >>OK, here is the message on this topic. It has not appeared on the
> archive
> >>where I looked for it. I
> >>am trying to figure out why. Thanks to Ed Wall for pointing me to it.
> >>
> >>There is a cluster of messages from David, Vera, Ana and Martin and ??
> here
> >>that seems to me
> >>especially important and potentially generative.
> >>
> >>Referring to the note I sent earlier with the analysis of the Russian
> who
> >>also knew Sanskrit, I questioned
> >>the issue of so- as a prefix in Russian. ditto o-
> >>
> >>And when we combine the two prefixes ( so-znanie/ o-so-znanie) what is
> being
> >>created. Peter? MGU Aspiranti?
> >>Anna S? ???
> >>
> >>znanie =knowledge
> >>so-znanie ~ co knowledge ????
> >>o-so-znanie ~~ about-co-knowledge, concerning-co-knowledge???????
> >>
> >>mike
> >>
> >>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>From: Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu>
> >>Date: Feb 9, 2007 6:36 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [xmca] Harried instructor seeks words of wisdom
> >>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >>
> >>Vera,
> >>
> >>I would certainly be interested in hearing more about the distinctions
> >>you're making between responsiveness, awareness and consciousness.
> >>
> >>To add to the (my) confusion, digging through my notes I've come across
> the
> >>following note by translator Norris Minick in Thinking & Speech (p. 388,
> n.
> >>12):
> >>
> >>"By the phrase 'conscious awareness' we gloss the Russian osaznanie,
> which V
> >>carefully and consistently uses and distinguishes from the term soznanie
> or
> >>'consciousness.' Vygotsky clarifies the difference between the two at
> >>several points in the text
the earlier translation of this volume
> (
Thought
> >>and language
) rendered both terms as 'consciousness,' introducing a
> >>confusion not to be found in the original Russian text."
> >>
> >>The links to neuroscience are very interesting. If I understand it
> >>correctly, Vygotsky's psychology was the study of consciousness and
> >>physiology (the material basis of consciousness). The division of labor
> that
> >>developed between Vygotsky and Luria speaks to this, I think. Modern
> >>neuroscience too often wants to treat consciousness as an epiphenomenon,
> but
> >>Vygotsky clearly viewed it as having a purpose: it has evolved because
> it
> >>serves an important function. After my last message I recalled
> Vygotsky's
> >>insistence that consciousness appears when action meets an obstacle. I'm
> >>pretty confident he says this as early as Educational Psychology, and as
> >>late as T&S, but I can't track down specific citations at this moment.
> And
> >>this links to David's comments about volition. Consciousness occurs when
> our
> >>prereflective action is blocked, and we must deliberate, look around,
> and
> >>consider alternatives. A two-way link to volition: Cs arises from
> practical
> >>activity, and serves to reorganize that activity. Cs gives us the will
> to do
> >>what is hard to do, what needs to be done, what at first grasp seems
> >>impossible to do.
> >>
> >>And while I'm cutting and pasting from my notes, this is from the last
> pages
> >>of Educational Psychology:
> >>
> >>"Man has set himself the goal of becoming master of his own feelings, of
> >>lifting the instincts to the heights of consciousness and making them
> >>transparent, of stretching the thread of will into what is concealed and
> >>into the underground, and to thereby lift himself up to a new stage, to
> >>create a 'higher' sociociological type, a, so to speak, super-man." 351
> >>
> >>None of this gives my students a *definition* of consciousness. But
> perhaps
> >>one has to be satisfied with a *history* of it, a story that describes
> how
> >>it comes into being and then departs again.
> >>
> >>Martin
> >>
> >>On 2/9/07 11:24 AM, "Vera Steiner" <vygotsky@unm.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>
> >>>I sent my message on consciousness before reading Martin's "harried
> >>>instructor seeks words of wisdom." It is a fine discussion, and my
> >>>apologies for not referring to it in my somewhat differently focused
> >>>comments.In my class last night, I tried to differentiate between
> >>>responsiveness, awareness and consciousness, a hard task, but if anyone
> >>>is interested, I would be willing to struggle with it some more in our
> >>>discussions. Right now, I have to leave the house and the computer,
> >>>Vera
> >>>
> >>>Martin Packer wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Trying to get the worms out of one can I seem to have opened another,
> but
> >>I
> >>>>think David may have rescued me before I started to ask. Trying to
> >>explain
> >>>>why studying consciousness was important to Vygotsky, I started with
> the
> >>>>assertion that for him (and me too) consciousness is in our
> interaction
> >>with
> >>>>the world. I suppose that all animals have consciousness, perhaps even
> >>>>plants in some sense, since they respond to changes in the environment
> >>(day
> >>>>& night; the movement of the sun) and so must sense these in some way.
> >>But
> >>>>human consciousness is, one supposes, much more complex, and it
> develops.
> >>>>
> >>>>If consciousness is in our interactions, not in our heads, that is
> >>helpful
> >>>>when we are trying to avoid dualistic thinking. And, yes, Vygotsky
> was
> >>>>trying to give a materialistic account of consciousness, which at
> first
> >>>>seems pretty contradictory.
> >>>>
> >>>>Psychology today generally doesnıt consider consciousness: in one
> class
> >>one
> >>>>might study memory, in another perception, in a third language, and so
> >>on.
> >>>>> From Vygotskyıs point of view this has divided up something unitary
>
> >>after
> >>>>all, in my conscious existence I am thinking at one moment,
> remembering
> >>>>something the next, then imagining something, talking, ... and even
> this
> >>>>account divides consciousness up too much. So the proper study of
> >>>>consciousness is the study of all these functions in their
> >>>>interrelationship. It is, I said, only to keep things simple that
> >>Vygotsky
> >>>>focuses mainly on thinking and talking in the book we are reading.
> >>>>
> >>>>I said some more. I said it in (bad) Spanish and now I canıt remember
> it
> >>in
> >>>>English!
> >>>>
> >>>>And they said, okay, very good, but what was Vygotskyıs definition of
> >>>>consciousnessı? Give us a definition of consciousness, and keep it
> >>concise
> >>>>and formal. They said this with a (collective) smile, so I know they
> >>werenıt
> >>>>expecting a dictionary definition, even before reading Davidıs
> message.
> >>But
> >>>>I wasnıt able to give a (good) answer.
> >>>>
> >>>>David, for me, too, consciousness is not cognition. I completely agree
> >>with
> >>>>you that volition is crucial for Vygotsky. (For example, I think
> >>Vygotskyıs
> >>>>position on scientific concepts is misunderstood when people say that
> >>such
> >>>>concepts enable self-control; V is clear that itıs the other way
> round:
> >>>>self-control, mastery of oneıs own psychological functions, makes such
> >>>>concepts possible.) But Iım not entirely comfortable *equating*
> >>>>consciousness with volition. I guess for a first shot Iıd say that
> >>volition
> >>>>is a relation between consciousness and functions that lack
> >>consciousness.
> >>>>One thing I like about this formulation is that it includes the
> >>possibility
> >>>>that consciousness is social, intersubjective, and that self-control
> has
> >>its
> >>>>roots in control-by-others. And I do believe that this was Vygotskyıs
> >>>>position (in-itself; for-others; for-itself). But having put it this
> >>way
> >>>>one has to distinguish carefully between consciousness and
> >>>>self-consciousness, no?
> >>>>
> >>>>Enough for one day. Iım off for enchiladas. More words of wisdom from
> >>XMCAıs
> >>>>collective consciousness will be much appreciated!
> >>>>
> >>>>Martin
> >>>>
> >>>>p.s I think Osimbologia may be a Nahuatl word. ;) I saw a wonderful
> >>>>Spanish-Nahuatl dictionary the other day. Any takers?
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>xmca mailing list
> >>>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>xmca mailing list
> >>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
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> >>_______________________________________________
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> >>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >//
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >/Ana Marjanovic-Shane, Ph.D./
> >/151 W. Tulpehocken St./
> >
> >/Philadelphia//, PA 19144///
> >
> >/(h) 215-843-2909/
> >
> >/ana@zmajcenter.org <mailto:ana@zmajcenter.org>/
> >
> >/http://www.speakeasy.org/~anamshane <
> http://www.speakeasy.org/%7Eanamshane>/
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >xmca mailing list
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> >http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> Hegel Summer School 16/17th February 2007. The Roots of Critical Theory -
> Resisting Neoconservatism Today
> http://home.mira.net/~andy/seminars/16022007.htm
>
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