Just to note that Peirce said a LOT about semiosis, using his many
variations of the word (he liked Greek spelling), and it did make a
big change, but a long time after he passed on.
As to history, I've always started with the idea that if we know how
we got where we are, we'd be rather likely to disagree with the
choices (or necessities, or ideologies) of the past that got us here
(since they don't tend to stay constant all that long), and so we'd
both want to change things and realize that there's no good reason
(from our point of view today), why they had to turn out the way they now are.
This historical subversiveness contrasts with a more dominant, often
called "Whiggish", view of history, which tends, like old-fashioned
apologist social functionalism, to claim that the way things are is
the way they have to be, and that history teaches us the lessons we
learned about why this is so. This is a variant of progressionist
evolutionary theory, and the 19th century view, still quite alive if
not among many evolutionary biologists, that all of evolution and all
of history is one grand upward march to ... ME! Here we sit, at the
crown of creation, in, if not the best of all possible worlds, at
least a world that is as it is because by and large that's how it has
to be. To which I say, most heartily ... bullshit!
More kindly, these different perspectives on history (and their is a
LITTLE truth in Whiggism ... a very little) are central to the divide
between political radicals and political conservatives, left and
right, which may change its colors and fashions, and programs, but
has remained remarkably constant for an awfully long time. And it
behooves us on the one side, I think, to have some understanding and
appreciation for WHY some people are on the other side.
We tend most often to say that they just follow their interests, even
unconsciously, and no doubt in the large and the long term that's
true enough (e.g. statistically, or ala Bourdieu's neo-Durkheimian
survey research). But it's a mistake I think, and far too dangerously
easy, to leave it at that. We need much deeper and better accounts of
why conservatives believe the crazy things they do! because to them
they are not crazy, but follow from a long tradition of
well-developed arguments and what appears to them to be mountains of evidence.
Conservatives attract many voters with their arguments, including
many whose objective interests should not dispose them that way.
A key reason why CHAT needs to re-invigorate its emphasis on the
historical is just because we are contending against another view of
history, one that is dangerous to everything we are working for, and
which needs to be faced with a vigorous and well-developed
alternative view ... hopefully one that can prove its worth with
contributions to practical problem solving and making the world
others would just accept, different and better for more of us.
JAY.
At 08:51 AM 1/22/2007, you wrote:
>This is one of the issues I find really interesting in action
>research - how do you understand this redefintion. You change the
>understanding of the relationship between espoused theory and theory
>in use (I'm using Argyris' terminology here) through discussion and
>change in the way individuals talk about their projects (is it an
>attempt to come to a better match between theory in use and the way
>we talk about what we do) - and I guess in the best of all possible
>worlds this will loop back and change the way we talk about activity
>- so espoused theory becomes closer to theory in use. But when this
>change occurs, is it a move from objectification and basis in
>history (and how the organization was developed through history) to
>a more process oriented overall understanding of activity. For
>those who believe the Peirce made a qualitative change when he
>introduced the concept of semiosis (and let's face it, it wasn't the
>most overwhelming introduction, maybe he only used the word a few
>times) - is it a movement towards a more Pragmaticist based semiosis?
>
>Do we need to recognize history in an attempt to understand the
>problem better. Jay makes a great point, why do we have forty
>minute periods, why do we have nine month school schedules? It is
>because of history, and we sort of know that history, or
>interpretations of that history - but then how does it help us get
>closer to solving our problem. And if we give primacy to history,
>doesn't this open the door to the argument that the reason we do it
>this way is because of our history, and our history got us here, so
>our history should play an important part in our problem solving?
>
>Just some questions on a snowy Monday morning.
>
>Michael
>
>________________________________
>
>From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Jay Lemke
>Sent: Sun 1/21/2007 2:40 PM
>To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>Subject: RE: [xmca] Action Research and its relationship to SCHAT
>
>
>
>
>Action Research is about solving immediate problems, but one of its
>strategies is to get people talking about what those problems really
>are. In the course of which they often re-define the key problems as
>being larger than their immediate symptoms. When you then start to
>collaboratively investigate these bigger issues, you almost always
>find that history has played a role in getting us into the mess we're
>in. And that understanding how to get out of it often depends on
>figuring out a way around the path that historically got us where we are.
>
>Why are school classes only 40 minutes long? why are students
>segregated by age in schools? why don't teacher-student relationships
>in schools last more than a few months to less than one year? why are
>curriculum subjects separated? why is curriculum content dictated to
>be uniform? why do we use pencil-and-paper testing? why don't
>students get to learn from non-teacher mentors? why can't I take my
>students on a field trip outside the school? why can't they learn by
>participating/observing in other institutions?
>
>Why can't we talk about the topics we're really interested in? why
>can't we spend more than 2 weeks on this? why can't I learn basic
>biology over 2 years instead of one? why can't we talk about human
>sexuality? or famous gay figures in history? why can't we learn about
>law, religion, economics, politics? why can't we discuss the causes
>of violence in my neighborhood? Why don't I get paid for all the work
>the school requires me to do?
>
>The causes of most social headaches are institutional and structural,
>and the timescales across which we need to look to understand how
>they came to cause our headaches expand in historical time as we
>probe these networks of causes.
>
>Remember: give a man a fish, he eats today; teach him to fish, he
>eats tomorrow too? Action research, and the CHAT perspective, is
>about learning new ways to eat, about looking across longer relevant
>timescales for alternatives and solutions, not about eating the first
>fish to come our way (though if you're really hungry, why not?).
>
>JAY.
>
>PS. Short-term solutions can give us the breathing space to seek
>longer-term ones. But they can also exacerbate longer-term problems,
>or disguise them until they get even worse.
>
>
>
>At 01:30 PM 1/21/2007, you wrote:
> >Hello Michael,
> >
> >It seems to me the example you give about a headache has more to do
> >with a definition of the problem than it does to do with the role of
> >history. Do I define the problem as a need to remove the pain right
> >now, or do I define the problem as the need to make sure I don't get
> >headaches again. If I define the problem as the former then I take
> >an aspirin, and because the consequences of the action are that I no
> >longer have a headache, I am able to assert that the aspirin helped
> >in getting rid of the headache, and I have a relatively high level
> >of warranted assertability, and the aspirin becomes the first
> >instrument I reach for when wanting to solve a similar problem. If
> >I want to get rid of my headaches completely, I don't determine the
> >cause beforehand, because that is going to guide my problem solving
> >activity, but not necessarily in the right direction (let's say I
> >think that my dog's barking is causing my headaches - I get rid of
> >my dog, and that is my solution. But my headaches continue, and now
> >I am without a dog). Instead I approach the problem as an
> >experiment, setting up careful activities with measurable
> >consequences. This is not to say that ideas that have gone before
> >are not important, but only as part of an array of instruments I can
> >use in my experiment.
> >
> >But history often times plays a more important, defining role, that
> >has implications for our problem solving. History takes a dominant
> >position in our thinking and then we focus on maintenance of history
> >rather than the solving of the problem. This, it seems to me, is at
> >least part of the problem that action research is attempting to deal
> >with, at least in some of its incarnations. It is interesting
> >because Santayana makes the point very early that Americans have two
> >ways of dealing with issues - the way they say they are going to
> >deal with issues and the way that they actually do deal with
> >issues. Even back in in early part of the nineteenth century
> >American's were saying that they deal with issues through
> >religion/ideology such as being Catholics, or Protestants, or
> >Conservatives or such. But in actual problem solving Americans are
> >almost always Naturalists, dealing with problems as they occur
> >within the confines of nature. The difficulty is sometimes that
> >ideology overwhelms Naturalism, and it does so through history -
> >meaning it causes people to confuse who they say they are with what
> >they do. Here in the United States we are going through an
> >interesting political period in which individuals actually act
> >(vote) against their own best interests. The question is why. Is
> >it the manipulation of activity through the implications of
> >history? Again, it seems to me that this was one of the issues
> >Action Research is meant to solve (I have some ideas of why it might
> >not be that successful related to the dynamic nature of
> >information). This is why I wonder if the introduction of history
> >from the CHAT perspective is necessarily a positive for Action
> >Research. I don't have any answer for this, and I'm not drawing any
> >conclusions. Just something this discussion on Action Research has
> >spurred in my thinking.
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth
> >Sent: Sun 1/21/2007 12:52 PM
> >To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >Subject: Re: [xmca] Action Research and its relationship to
> >XMCAtheoreticaland methodological interests
> >
> >
> >
> >Hi Michael,
> >the problem with "immediate problems" is that these are concrete
> >expressions of issues at a very different level. Addressing the
> >immediate problem is like taking aspirin when you hurt somewhere.
> >What this solution to your immediate problem does not provide you
> >with is an understanding of the causes of headache, so that taking
> >aspirin is only patching some deeper problem---the causes, which are
> >of a very different nature, could be psychological, psychosomatic,
> >physiological, etc.
> >Historical analysis of the system as a whole is one way of getting at
> >the determinants---causes---of the immediate problems and how these
> >are mediated by the system as a whole. There are neat analyses by
> >Klaus Holzkamp or Ole Dreier that show why in counseling, for
> >example, you need to do more than treat immediate causes.
> >Cheers,
> >Michael
> >
> >On 21-Jan-07, at 9:15 AM, Michael Glassman wrote:
> >
> >Had a chance to take a look at both Cathrene's chapters and the paper
> >by Anne Edwards. It is really interesting, good work. I am left
> >with an initial question. In both cases (and I might be wrong here),
> >what the authors were saying that CHAT (or SCRAT) have to offer
> >action research is a historical perspective, which, from what I am
> >reading, is not really part of Action research. The question this
> >brings to mind is, "Is this a good thing?" Do we naturally take
> >historical analysis as a good when we are attempting to deal with
> >immediate problems, and to sort of break the yoke the the larger
> >cultural foregrounding when attempting to deal with immediate
> >problems, or does it in some way "stack the deck" and force a more
> >culturally historical acceptable solution to the problem. It's a
> >problem I really struggle with. One thing that Cathrene's chapters
> >really did for me is make me recognize the relationship between micro-
> >genetic research and action research - because I suppose in the best
> >of all possible worlds micro-genetic research is action research (or
> >is it the other way around?)
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth
> >Sent: Sun 1/21/2007 11:32 AM
> >To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >Subject: Re: [xmca] Action Research and its relationship to XMCA
> >theoreticaland methodological interests
> >
> >
> >
> >Hi all, regarding the question of action research in schools and
> >CHAT---i.e., the points Anne Edwards article is about---we also had
> >written many years ago a conceptualization of this form of research
> >and some variants in an online article that some might find
> >interesting in this context:
> >
> >Roth, Wolff-Michael, Lawless, Daniel V. & Tobin, Kenneth (2000,
> >December). {Coteaching | Cogenerative Dialoguing} as Praxis of
> >Dialectic Method [47 paragraphs]. Forum Qualitative Sozialforschung /
> >Forum: Qualitative Social Research [On-line Journal], 1(3). Available
> >at: http://www.qualitative-research.net/fqs-texte/3-00/3-00rothetal-
> >e.htm [Date of Access: Month Day, Year]
> >
> >Cheers, Michael
> >
> >
> >On 19-Jan-07, at 5:37 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
> >
> >Two papers have been posted and can now be found at the xmca website:
> >
> >Catherene's chapters and the article by Anne Edwards.
> >
> >
> >We will be posting an article from the most recent, exciting, issue
> >of MCA
> >shortly. More about
> >that later since there is slippage in the process.
> >
> >But the papers for discussion are there. Perhaps
> >Time for doing some research by taking action and finding them so you
> >can
> >comment, ask questions,
> >or provide an excuse not to do the dishes!!
> >
> >Have a nice weekend all.
> >mike
> >_______________________________________________
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> >xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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> >
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> >
> >
> ><winmail.dat>
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> >http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >xmca mailing list
> >xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>Jay Lemke
>Professor
>University of Michigan
>School of Education
>610 East University
>Ann Arbor, MI 48109
>
>Tel. 734-763-9276
>Email. JayLemke@UMich.edu
>Website. <http://www.umich.edu/~jaylemke%A0>www.umich.edu/~jaylemke
>_______________________________________________
>xmca mailing list
>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>xmca mailing list
>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
Jay Lemke
Professor
University of Michigan
School of Education
610 East University
Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Tel. 734-763-9276
Email. JayLemke@UMich.edu
Website. <http://www.umich.edu/~jaylemke%A0>www.umich.edu/~jaylemke
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