Dear All, sorry, but I could not attach the picture I talked about it.
But you can see it here: http://hjem.tele2adsl.dk/Volker/Billede1.jpg
Volker
PS. While I point to some links, if someone is interested in my Moscow
paper, named "Performing Vygotsky", - you can find it
here:http://hjem.tele2adsl.dk/Volker/Performing%20Vygotskyc2.html
Volker.hippie skrev:
> Dear Mike, - I think you ( and Seth Chaiklin) are right, it would only
> be possible in a LOCAL version, - yes, and sometimes artists,
> musicians, painters can move across this boarder - and still, the
> phenomenological experience of it, a ZPD on film or picture, still
> only would last for a short moment.
>
> If a short moment can make great impact, as Daniel Stern talks about
> in his newest book, is another topic?
>
> For now I want to show you all a picture, made by a photograph, Marc
> Schneider, in a refugee camp somewhere in Serbia, where the NGO "Hi
> Neighbour" tries to create hope with the jelp of by Vygotsky inspired
> plays and activities.
>
> ZPD
>
> The first, and second, and ... time I saw this picture I thought, or
> better I felt, - yes, he made it, a picture of a prototypical ZPD
> situation. - But, can you see what I see, or do I see what I see,
> because I have visited Serbia and the workshops of "Hi Neighour". -
> But that would be nearly the same than to ask, is this art. - Anyway,
> I hope you can "catch" the picture.
> ...
>
> You like "possibilties", the expression I have not seen before, in
> "Thinking and Speaking".
> But I would like you to say more about: But is multiplicity what
> everyone has in
> mind? I do not think so. This related directly
> to the issue of horizontal and vertical "dimensions" of development.
>
> Volker
>
> Mike Cole skrev:
>> Volker-- I believe you can take video recordings of a zoped. However,
>> ideal
>> it should be more than one event since the relative change in
>> responsibility
>> for carrying out some task that is the immediate environment for the
>> change
>> one is looking for may require that. There are some reasonbly good
>> descriptions of zopeds around IF and only IF the idea that when one
>> observes
>> developmental (qualitative ) change in interactions and shifts in
>> responsibility etc it applies to a LOCAL social situation of
>> developkent. As
>> I read Chaiklin, and sometimes (not always) LSV, developmental
>> change can
>> only count as such if it is to be seen across the board in all settings.
>> This is impression from Leontiev
>> in his book on development as well. IF that is the interpretation,
>> then no.
>> One would need a feature length film to gather evidence.
>>
>> I also like the idea of the word possiblities rather than proximal
>> because
>> of the implication of multiplicity. But is multiplicity what everyone
>> has in
>> mind? I do not think so. This related directly
>> to the issue of horizontal and vertical "dimensions" of development.
>> mike
>>
>> On 1/12/07, Volker.hippie <Volker.hippie@tele2adsl.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Catalina, you are right. The term "nächsten" in German can be
>>> translated with next, but if we follow the root of the word, you are
>>> right, that would be "in der Nähe", that is nearby, proximal.
>>>
>>> What was new for me, to read by Vygotsky, is the combination of the two
>>> words, /nächsten Möglichkeiten/, that is in English the Zone of
>>> proximal, or better, nearby *possibilities*.
>>>
>>> For me the word possibilities (plural) seems almost postmodern in
>>> contrast to the word development.
>>>
>>> Nobody would know beforehand all the possibilities which are possible,
>>> though Vygotsky some pages earlier makes the statement that the
>>> range of
>>> possibilities (development) is somehow depended by the individual and
>>> the socio-cultural activities/signs which are in play. As Elena
>>> Kravtsova said in her speech in Moscow, at the 7th International
>>> Vygotsky Memorial Conference, in November 2006, /Vygotsky could in one
>>> way be (nearly) a biologist, pointing at the ground all human beings
>>> have in common /(our nature history, which Leontjev explained so nicely
>>> from the early beginnings of re-action and life), /and in the same time
>>> be a constructivist, where there always are possibilities for more
>>> possibilities, especially in the arts and the humanities./
>>>
>>> At the conference several speakers said, that Vygotsky was /in love
>>> with
>>> the crisis of psychology./
>>>
>>> And it could be, that I am in love with principles which invite
>>> both, or
>>> even several "language-games" to create Zones of nearby possibilities.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your reply, and correction, - next would actually be not
>>> the right term.
>>>
>>> Volker
>>>
>>> PS. Can you take photos of a ZPD?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Catalina Laserna skrev:
>>> > Thank you for the the reference to the German translation of "Speech
>>> > and Thought" -- I will try to get a copy. Although my German is
>>> > rusty, I am very aware of how much is lost in translation, for
>>> > example, certain passages of Heideggar make little sense in the
>>> English.
>>> >
>>> > Anyway, I was thinking: would "nächsten" not also connote "nearby"?
>>> > The implication of this nuanced difference in wording is that
>>> > development would have an opportunistic aspect to it.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> >
>>> > Catalina
>>> >
>>> > On Jan 11, 2007, at 5:44 AM, Volker.hippie wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Dear Cathrine, in "Denken und Sprechen", translated by Lompscher and
>>> >> Rückriem, I felt in love with the term, on page 253: "Aus dieser
>>> >> specifischen Zusammenarbeit zwischen Kind und Erwachsenem, die ...
>>> >> das zentrale Moment im Bildungsproces darstellt, erklärt sich die
>>> >> frühe Reifung wissenschaftlicher Begriffe sowie der Umstand, dass
>>> ihr
>>> >> Entwicklungsniveau als *Zone der nächsten Möglichkeiten (Zone for
>>> >> next possibilities) *hinsichtlich der Alltagsbegriffe wirkt,
>>> indem er
>>> >> ihnen als eine Art Propädeutik den Weg bahnt".
>>> >>
>>> >> Page 32: Um nachzuahmen, muss ich die Möglichkeit haben, von dem,
>>> was
>>> >> ich kann, zu dem überzugehen, was ich nicht kann.
>>> >>
>>> >> I would like to give you some more quotes, but first I have to
>>> ask, -
>>> >> are you able to read German? In a way it would not make meaning to
>>> >> translate fx the term "Bildungsproces", because as I know they do
>>> not
>>> >> have a word for it, in English. "Bildung" is another one, of this
>>> >> funny words, where Bildung means to get educated, not only as we
>>> >> understand to learning, but, too, as socializing to a democratic
>>> >> human member of the world community.
>>> >>
>>> >> You could find the same passages in the translation by Kozulin,
>>> 1986,
>>> >> or Sevé, 1997, but for me , Lompscher/Rückriem (with the assistance
>>> >> of Elena Kravtsova, Ghita Vygodskaya) have been able to translate
>>> the
>>> >> words by Vygotsky in a way, as they express in the start of the
>>> book,
>>> >> closest to the Russian original text. - I don't know if that is the
>>> >> "really" the case, ...
>>> >>
>>> >> Volker
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Cathrene Connery skrev:
>>> >>> Hi Volker,
>>> >>> Thanks for the interesting comments. Is it possible to select a
>>> >>> quote / selection regarding the ZPD from the text you mentioned and
>>> >>> post it for the list serve? Feliz dia (Have a happy day),
>>> >>> Cathrene
>>> >>> M. Cathrene Connery, Ph.D.
>>> >>> Assistant Professor of Bilingual & TESL Education Central
>>> Washington
>>> >>> University
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>>> "Volker.hippie" <Volker.hippie@tele2adsl.dk> 1/10/2007 8:59
>>> AM >>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> Yes, and the ZPD reminds me of the term Gibson used to describe
>>> >>> perception in a way, which made it possible to bridge between the
>>> >>> objective and subjective perception, which he named
>>> "/affordances/".
>>> >>>
>>> >>> and I agree with Armando, the ZPD is something between the
>>> >>> individual and the other(s) - and it gets facilitated by common
>>> >>> joint activities.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> But that does not mean, that I can not take what I learn in a ZPD
>>> >>> with me, to others places, other and maybe even more developmental
>>> >>> ZPD's.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Just a thought, - that the real fantastic principles in psychology
>>> >>> are not either/or individual/collective principles, but both, at
>>> the
>>> >>> same time, in a dialectical way.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It is therefore so wonderful to read Vygotsky - ´cause nobody has,
>>> >>> IMHO, come up with a clearer description of the ZPD than made by
>>> >>> Vygotsky in Denken und Sprechen, 2002, which is the translation by
>>> >>> Lompscher et al. .
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Volker
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Armando Perez skrev:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Eric: I dont like to look at ZPD as individual but as
>>> >>>> a colective interperson al situation. This means that
>>> >>>> ZPD do not belong to an individual but it is
>>> >>>> constructed or co-constructed. I also work in
>>> >>>> educational aplication of Vygotsky and I am tried to
>>> >>>> unified the concept od ZPD and Social Situation odf
>>> >>>> Development. What do you think about that
>>> >>>> Armando
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
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