Folks-- I have a couple of papers and a review of a book on "bio-cultural
co-construction"
in press or published. I get the idea that culture and human phylogeny are
co-constructed. Honest.
But the terminology floating around in the discussion is too loose for me to
connect with. The demonstration of neuror mirrons in chimps is clear. But
for humans? Who has done single
cell studies of humans? Missing those refs.
mike
PS-- Perhaps Monica has pointed to a way in which I am introducing ambiguity
into the discussion by putting human in front of phylogeny. I hestitated on
that, but figure it was
the hominid line that people were interested in. For sure, isolated elements
of what we refer to as culture are present in non-humans. An article I
wrote a while back for the Handbook
of Child Psych reviews evidence to that time. The evidence is accumulating
rapidly, but not nearly as rapidly as the speculation!!
Also, perhaps of interest, is my view that the basic principles of
cultural-historical psych
of about 1929 do a pretty good, although in some ways flawed, anticipation
of what
current evidence points to in more detail.
On 1/11/07, SungWon Hwang <swhwang@uvic.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
> In terms of cultural historical, I am referring to aspects of activities
> essential to the survival of collectives. It is interesting that in a
> recent
> neuroscientific research scientists reveal the existence of mirror neurons
> in humans and monkeys, which responsible for empathy for example, and
> explain it as a mechanism that provide survival advantages.
> SungWon
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Mike Cole
> > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:58 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: correction RE: [xmca] Reference for ontological
> > andphylogeneticlanguagecomparison
> >
> > Folks, you are confusing me.
> > Phylogeny is the history of human life of which human phylogeny is one
> tiny
> > branch.
> > During phylogeny a new form of life slowly and unevening occurred in
> which
> > achievements of
> > prior generations began to modify the biology/behavior/psychology/social
> > life of creatures that
> > evenuate, along one branch in homo sapiens.
> >
> > To say that phylogenetic evolution is a cultural historical
> proces////////
> > is either simply a confusion
> > or it implicitly marks that last millisecond of evolution when homo
> sapiens
> > and homo sapiens sapiens
> > emerged.
> >
> > My two tsarist kopeks
> > mike
> >
> > On 1/11/07, SungWon Hwang <swhwang@uvic.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Eric,
> > > I think it would better to see phylogenetic evolution as a
> > > cultural-historical process mediated by object-oriented human
> activities.
> > > Culturally historically new forms of activity emerge in and through
> > > individual actions that concretely realize cultural possibilities and
> > > achieve collective motives.
> > > SungWon
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> > bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > > On Behalf Of ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:49 AM
> > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > Subject: Re: correction RE: [xmca] Reference for ontological and
> > > > phylogeneticlanguagecomparison
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Michael and Tony:
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for the useful information. What cultural influences
> would
> > > > produce the phylogentic development?
> > > >
> > > > eric
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tony Whitson
> > > > <twhitson who-is-at UDel.E To: "'eXtended
> > Mind,
> > > > Culture, Activity'" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > > du> cc: Mike Cole
> > > > <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > > Sent by: Subject: correction
> RE:
> > > [xmca]
> > > > Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> > > > xmca-bounces who-is-at web languagecomparison
> > > > er.ucsd.edu
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 01/11/2007 09:39
> > > > AM
> > > > Please respond
> > > > to "eXtended
> > > > Mind, Culture,
> > > > Activity"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I inserted "phylogenic" in the wrong place before. It's fixed below.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Tony Whitson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What a nice, useful analogy Michael.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm thinking about how to make it more precisely parallel. The
> > > > (ontogenic)
> > > > > development of language ability in the child could be compared
> with
> > > the
> > > > > (ontogenic) development of a player's football skills (I'm
> thinking
> > > > > basketball might work better, since -- at least in US "gridiron"
> > > football
> > > > --
> > > > > most players on the field have specialized roles not requiring as
> > > great
> > > a
> > > > > range of versatile skills as in basketball [IMHO: a defensive left
> > > guard
> > > > > might think otherwise]). So, the development of a [basketball]
> > > player's
> > > > > skills would not recapitulate the (phylogenic) development of the
> game
> > > > itself. Skills
> > > > > that might have had value in the game as it was played in the
> early
> > > > history
> > > > > of the game might have no value for players today, and would not
> be
> > > part
> > > > of
> > > > > a developmental stage that today's players go through on their way
> to
> > > > > development of skills they use today.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> > bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > > On
> > > > > Behalf Of Wolff-Michael Roth
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:22 AM
> > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > > Cc: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> > > > > languagecomparison
> > > > >
> > > > > A CHAT perspective built on the dialectic of individual and
> > > > > collective, the person realizes cultural possibilities available
> to
> > > > > any one else. From this perspective, children grow up in a
> different
> > > > > material context, hearing different utterances in the context of
> > > > > different situation. This would lead to the contention that
> ontogeny
> > > > > does not recapitulate phylogeny, much in the same way that a
> present
> > > > > day football game would not recapitulate the first football game
> ever
> > > > > played or its precursor. (The referent of "football" can be taken
> the
> > > > > British or American way).
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > > On 11-Jan-07, at 6:46 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dan I. Slobin has an article, "From Ontogenesis to phylogenesis:
> what
> > > > > can
> > > > > child language tell us about language evolution?" that appears in
> IN
> > > > > the
> > > > > j. Langer, S.T. Parker edited volume, "BIology and Knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > The questions he poses in the article are: Does linguistic
> ontogeny
> > > > > recapitulate phylogeny?, Does linguistic diachrony recapitulate
> > > > > ontogony?
> > > > > OD children create grammatical forms?
> > > > >
> > > > > good read but not a CHAT perspective but rather biologicaly based.
> > > > >
> > > > > eric
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tony Whitson
> > > > UD School of Education
> > > > NEWARK DE 19716
> > > >
> > > > twhitson@udel.edu
> > > > _______________________________
> > > >
> > > > "those who fail to reread
> > > > are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> > > > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Feb 01 2007 - 10:11:31 PST