Thanks for all the thoughts and references, Dot.
I cannot comment on most of what you wrote owing to ignorance including my
great difficulty in understanding Zinchenko's recent writing.
My one comment: If the individual "vs" social balancing act is what is at
issue in the constructivist/constructivism distinction we need a whole new
term so that we can escape a real dead end.
I am guessing the Spinoza would agree with me.
mike
On 12/3/06, Dot Robbins <drobbins72000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Non-Classical Psychology
> In reading many messages over the past few days, I am somewhat struck at
> the type of discourse taken, more than the content of the messages. Just a
> couple of private comments, with no need for your response. Very slowly,
> there is a small, new discourse being developed to try and return to
> Vygotsky, inter alia, to begin to understand concepts from a different
> level. The label used for this discourse is "non-classical psychology," the
> term Elkonin gave to Vygotsky's cultural-historical approach. The idea right
> now is to return to older theories and try to understand them in the light
> of various new thinking today. There is a reference list at the bottom of
> the page, and two authors in particular have written interesting material,
> Dmitry Leontiev (2005), and V. Zinchenko (2001 and 2002). I have tried to
> contribute to these ideas, in an article I have (2007) that will be on my
> website in a couple of days. I will not get into the newer form of discourse
> here, but hope that
> some of you might be interested in thinking about a less linear approach
> to thinking and discussing, which includes a non-spatial approach to
> problems not yet truly understood, such as units of analysis, etc. I don't
> know if this approach will take root or not, but I do know that the mode of
> discourse we now have often falls into a sense of rhetoric or endless words.
> I would like to give caution to that, and setting up what can sometimes be
> viewed as false dichotomies. We need a discourse that fits within a specific
> system (also, for A. A. Leontiev, a system--plan--methodology). Otherwise,
> we are truly speaking so many words that are difficult to use without some
> system that truly translates into concrete action (be it human free action
> of will, or any other action needed to change ourselves and society). Thanks
> to anyone for investigating the articles I have offered, which have shown me
> that we have much to interprete from a win/win situation.....Thank you for
> your
> discussions on the past few days, all of which has triggered much thinking
> for me, and I think, many others. \n
> \nSpinoza
> \nFor a new discourse within non-classical psychology, it is extremely
> necessary to know Spinoza, with all of our interpretations. His thoughts on
> truth being perceived through "essence" (Zinchenko writes on similar, but
> different thoughts), which is fixed in eternal things...he writes on the
> "third space"--intuition; will as perfect understanding; truth as a
> possession of a true idea, where no further sign is needed; whole/part: "In
> order that all ideas may be reduced to unity, we shall endeavor so to
> associate and arrange them that our mind may, as far as possible reflect
> subjectively the reality of nature, both as a whole and as parts." (quote
> from Spinoza, sorry, don\'t have source here). Spinoza is a key component in
> non-classical psychology, and I am happy he is being discussed. So, wish
> there could be more on his ideas from Spinozian scholars. Thanks for the
> discussion.\n
> \n
> \nConstructivism/Constructionism
> \nIn my notes italsostatedthat "constructionism foregrounds the social
> setting, wheras constructivism foregrounds the individual in the social
> setting." Vygotsky (1989 [1929] spoke about a "constructive method," but we
> need to reread his thoughts. Constructivism can be broken down into many
> things, such as "cognitive constructivism" or "social
> constructivism"...Gergen (1995, pp. 24-25) has written interesting thoughts
> on this, also speaking about Vygotsky. And, Hayles (1993, pp. 39-42) speaks
> of a "constrained constructivism." All of this discussion is also very
> important in better understanding the roots of Vygotsky. Thanks for that
> discussion.\n
> \n
> \nDefectology
> \nYes, I agree with Katya R. that we need to have a better understanding
> of defectology. I would highly encourage people who can read German to find
> some books from Wolfgang Jantzen and Christel Manske. I have listed one
> below. There are initial discussions by some to perhaps have a seminar on
> defectology and Vygotsky in future, somewhere in Moscow, or perhaps it could
> be with Jantzen in Bremen, Germany. This is an aspect rarely discussed on
> xmca, and one of the core elements of Vygotskian thought. Thanks for that
> discussion.\n",1] ); //-->
>
> Spinoza
> For a new discourse within non-classical psychology, it is extremely
> necessary to know Spinoza, with all of our interpretations. His thoughts on
> truth being perceived through "essence" (Zinchenko writes on similar, but
> different thoughts), which is fixed in eternal things...he writes on the
> "third space"--intuition; will as perfect understanding; truth as a
> possession of a true idea, where no further sign is needed; whole/part: "In
> order that all ideas may be reduced to unity, we shall endeavor so to
> associate and arrange them that our mind may, as far as possible reflect
> subjectively the reality of nature, both as a whole and as parts." (quote
> from Spinoza, sorry, don't have source here). Spinoza is a key component in
> non-classical psychology, and I am happy he is being discussed. So, wish
> there could be more on his ideas from Spinozian scholars. Thanks for the
> discussion.
>
> Constructivism/Constructionism
> In my notes, it also stated that "constructionism foregrounds the social
> setting, wheras constructivism foregrounds the individual in the social
> setting." Vygotsky (1989 [1929] spoke about a "constructive method," but we
> need to reread his thoughts. Constructivism can be broken down into many
> things, such as "cognitive constructivism" or "social
> constructivism"...Gergen (1995, pp. 24-25) has written interesting thoughts
> on this, also speaking about Vygotsky. And, Hayles (1993, pp. 39-42) speaks
> of a "constrained constructivism." All of this discussion is also very
> important in better understanding the roots of Vygotsky. Thanks for that
> discussion.
>
> Defectology
> Yes, I agree with Katya R. that we need to have a better understanding
> of defectology. I would highly encourage people who can read German to find
> some books from Wolfgang Jantzen and Christel Manske. I have listed one
> below. There are initial discussions by some to perhaps have a seminar on
> defectology and Vygotsky in future, somewhere in Moscow, or perhaps it could
> be with Jantzen in Bremen, Germany. This is an aspect rarely discussed on
> xmca, and one of the core elements of Vygotskian thought. Thanks for that
> discussion. \n
> \nIn concluding, I am hoping that perhaps newer forms of discourse can
> take place in future, with many unresolved issues within Vygotskian thinking
> being discussed in the light of non-classical psychology. And, this will
> need to have the inclusion of many many Russian voices......Regarding the
> 7th International Vygotsky Memorial Conference in Moscow, November 14-17,
> 2006....a big thanks goes to the people who supported this conference. There
> were 17 countries represented, and people from three more countries who
> could not attend. We hope that newer ideas and a new discourse will be
> generated as a result of the conference. From June 20-29, 2007 there will be
> an International Summer School in Russia, titled: The Cultural-Historical
> Approach in Education in Russia: Golden Key Schools. It will be for
> teachers, practitioners, theorists, students, anyone. The attempt is have a
> smaller group of people come together to see how the Golden Key Schools
> function within the Vygotskian
> tradition, and to have days to dialogue and exchange ideas together. Thank
> you for your inspiration in the past few days, and the long reading time it
> has taken. May it continue.....\n
> \n
> \nwith best regards to each of you,
> \nDot
> \n
> \nGergen, K. J. (1995). Social construction and the educational process.
> In L. P. Steffe & G. Gale (Eds.). \nConstructivism in Education. Hillsdale,
> NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates.
> \n
> \nHayles, K.N. (1993). Constrained constructivism: Locating scientific
> inquiry in the theater of representation. In G. Levine (Ed.), \nRealsim and
> Representation. Madison: University of Wisconsin Press.
> \n
> \n",1] ); //-->
>
> In concluding, I am hoping that perhaps newer forms of discourse can
> take place in future, with many unresolved issues within Vygotskian thinking
> being discussed in the light of non-classical psychology. And, this will
> need to have the inclusion of many many Russian voices......Regarding the
> 7th International Vygotsky Memorial Conference in Moscow, November 14-17,
> 2006....a big thanks goes to the people who supported this conference. There
> were 17 countries represented, and people from three more countries who
> could not attend. We hope that newer ideas and a new discourse will be
> generated as a result of the conference. From June 20-29, 2007 there will be
> an International Summer School in Russia, titled: The Cultural-Historical
> Approach in Education in Russia: Golden Key Schools. It will be for
> teachers, practitioners, theorists, students, anyone. The attempt is have a
> smaller group of people come together to see how the Golden Key Schools
> function within the Vygotskian
> tradition, and to have days to dialogue and exchange ideas together. Thank
> you for your inspiration in the past few days, and the long reading time it
> has taken. May it continue.....
>
> with best regards to each of you,
> Dot
>
> Gergen, K. J. (1995). Social construction and the educational process.
> In L. P. Steffe & G. Gale (Eds.). Constructivism in Education. Hillsdale,
> NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates.
>
> Hayles, K.N. (1993). Constrained constructivism: Locating scientific
> inquiry in the theater of representation. In G. Levine (Ed.), Realsim and
> Representation. Madison: University of Wisconsin Press.
>
> 01). Jeder Mensch kann lernen—Perspektiven einer kulturhistorischen
> (Behinderten-) Pädagogik.\n Berlin: Luchterhand. (trans. Every Person can
> Learn—Perspectives of a cultural-historical (handicapped-) Pedagogy).
> \n
> \nLeontiev, D. (2005). Non-Classical Psychology: Beyond the Internal and
> the External. In A. Gulerce, A. Hofmeister, I. Staeuble, G. Saunders, and J.
> Kaye (Eds.) \nContemporary Theorizing in Psychology: Global Perspectives,
> (pp. 19-28). Concord, ON: Captus University Publications.
> \n
> \n
> \nRobbins, D. (2003). Vygotsky\'s and A. A. Leontiev\'s Semiotics and
> Psycholinguistifcs: Applications for Education, Second Language Acquisition,
> and Theories of Language. \nCT: Praeger Publishers. (Chapter 4:
> Constructivism (Constructionism) and Teacher-Ability, pp. 55-72)
> \n
> \nRobbins, D. (2007). Critical Review of Sociocultural Theory,
> Cognitivism, Postmodernism: Redefining L. S. Vygotsky\'s Non-Classical
> Psychology. In Journal of Intercultural Pragmatics, Vol. 4, Nr. 1. (it will
> be on my website very soon)\n
> \n
> \nVygotsky, L. S. (1989 [1929]). Concrete human psychology. In Soviet
> Psychology, 27(2), pp. 53-77.\n
> \n
> \nZinchenko, V. (2001). External and Internal: Another Comment on the
> Issue. In S. Chaiklin (Ed.), ",1] ); //--> Jantzen, W. (2001). Jeder
> Mensch kann lernen—Perspektiven einer kulturhistorischen (Behinderten-)
> Pädagogik. Berlin: Luchterhand. (trans. Every Person can Learn—Perspectives
> of a cultural-historical (handicapped-) Pedagogy).
>
> Leontiev, D. (2005). Non-Classical Psychology: Beyond the Internal and
> the External. In A. Gulerce, A. Hofmeister, I. Staeuble, G. Saunders, and J.
> Kaye (Eds.) Contemporary Theorizing in Psychology: Global Perspectives, (pp.
> 19-28). Concord, ON: Captus University Publications.
>
>
> Robbins, D. (2003). Vygotsky's and A. A. Leontiev's Semiotics and
> Psycholinguistifcs: Applications for Education, Second Language Acquisition,
> and Theories of Language. CT: Praeger Publishers. (Chapter 4: Constructivism
> (Constructionism) and Teacher-Ability, pp. 55-72)
>
> Robbins, D. (2007). Critical Review of Sociocultural Theory,
> Cognitivism, Postmodernism: Redefining L. S. Vygotsky's Non-Classical
> Psychology. In Journal of Intercultural Pragmatics, Vol. 4, Nr. 1. (it will
> be on my website very soon)
>
> Vygotsky, L. S. (1989 [1929]). Concrete human psychology. In Soviet
> Psychology, 27(2), pp. 53-77.
>
> Zinchenko, V. (2001). External and Internal: Another Comment on the
> Issue. In S. Chaiklin (Ed.), The Theory and Practice of Cultural-Historical
> \nPsychology, (pp.135-147). Denmark: Aarhus University Press.
> \n
> \nZinchenko, V. (2002). From Classical to Organic Psychology: In
> Commeration of the Centennial of Lev Vygotsky\'s Birth. In D. Robbins and A.
> Stetsenko (Eds.), \nVoices within Vygotsky\'s Non-Classical Psychology:
> Past, Present, Future, (pp. 3-26). New York: Nova Science.
> \n------
> Dr. Dorothy (Dot) Robbins
> www.vygotsky-robbins.com
> \n\n",0] ); //--> The Theory and Practice of Cultural-Historical
> Psychology, (pp.135-147). Denmark: Aarhus University Press.
>
> Zinchenko, V. (2002). From Classical to Organic Psychology: In
> Commeration of the Centennial of Lev Vygotsky's Birth. In D. Robbins and A.
> Stetsenko (Eds.), Voices within Vygotsky's Non-Classical Psychology: Past,
> Present, Future, (pp. 3-26). New York: Nova Science
> ____
> "] ,[] ,[] ,[] ,"Dec 3, 2006 6:20 PM","Fwd: non-classical
> thinking","",[] ,1,,,"Sun Dec 3 2006_6:20 PM","On 12/3/06, Dot
> Robbins wrote:","On 12/3/06, Dot Robbins <dot.robbins@gmail.com>
> wrote:","gmail.com",,,"","",0,,"",0,,0,"In reply to \"non-classical
> thinking\"",0] ); D(["mb","Wolfgang, For Your Information!!!!",1] ); //-->
>
>
> Dorothy (Dot) Robbins
> Professor of German
> Russian Orphanage Vyschgorod
> www.vygotsky-robbins.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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