Dear Leif,
Thank you for sending Gunilla and her friends and family news about her
popularity. It is so sad that she cannot participate. But I think that
such news will still maybe mean a lot to her.
Ana
Leif Strandberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I love the ongoing conversation about about imagination, creativity
> and play. And, it's lovely to see all the references to Gunilla
> Lindqvist's important work on this subject. I wish Gunilla could
> follow the discussion but I am sorry to say: She can't. She nowadays
> lives in a care center for people with dementia. She is well but can't
> participate in this kind of intellectual work. I will though send my
> greetings to her close friends in Karlstad where Gunilla lives, and
> tell them that Gunilla's work is more than alive. It is great!
>
> Thanks.
>
> Leif
>
> Sweden
> 2006-11-13 kl. 18.23 skrev Beth Ferholt:
>
>> Gunilla Lindqvist argues that although Vygotsky stated he was against
>> nonsense stories for children, such as "Crocodile", in Educational
>> Psychology (1926), he left this position. In Psychology of Art
>> (1925) he was already writing about the connections between nursery
>> rhymes and children's play, writing that by taking a child into a
>> nonsense world we can see the child's intellectual work and
>> perception of reality. Then, in Imagination and Creativity in
>> Childhood (1930), Vygotsky links reality and imagination through a
>> discussion of creativity.
>> I will find this in Lindqvist's work and see if she has more to say
>> on this that is of interest.
>> Beth
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2006, at 9:34 AM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote:
>>
>>> This is all very new to me, although I have read Chukovsky's "From 2
>>> to 5" and also used some of his examples. It is very intriguing and
>>> I am paying close attention to more information.
>>> Ana
>>>
>>> Mike Cole wrote:
>>>> I will be following up on all this, David.
>>>> I view Chukovsky (as well as LSV!) a very complicated figure. I
>>>> have taught
>>>> "From 2-5" in dialogue with "1984", which, given what you say about
>>>> Chukovski's antisemitism and
>>>> stalinism is just a little ironic. I have ordered his book on
>>>> translation
>>>> from the library. I will be interested in what others think about the
>>>> substance of the two men's ideas in the 1920's
>>>> and early 1930's. LSV changed a good deal between pedagogical
>>>> psychology and
>>>> thinking and speech and in his thinking about imagination (the
>>>> Lindqvist
>>>> piece points to this). And
>>>> I hear somewhere the Chukovsky as an expert on aespopian language, but
>>>> cannot find any refs.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps Natalia Gajdamashko can help here? She is very busy but
>>>> perhaps has
>>>> some relevant historical knowledge.
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>> On 11/11/06, Kellogg <kellogg@snue.ac.kr> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Mike:
>>>>>
>>>>> The hostility between Vygotsky and Chukovsky is, I think, quite a
>>>>> story,
>>>>> and it's almost completely untold. Yes, there is some stuff
>>>>> available on the
>>>>> web, but my feeling is that there's a lot more to it. Here's my
>>>>> contribution, for what it's worth
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, to begin there's the famous footnote to Esthetic Education,
>>>>> on p.
>>>>> 270 of Educational Pedagogy, to wit:
>>>>>
>>>>> "So fashionable and, now, so popular a work as Chukovskii's
>>>>> Crocodile,
>>>>> like all
>>>>> of Chukovskii's stories for children, is one of the better
>>>>> examples of
>>>>> this perversion of children's poetry with nonsense and gibberish.
>>>>> Chukovskii
>>>>> seems to
>>>>> proceed from the assumption that the sillier something is, the more
>>>>> understandable and the more entertaining it is for the child, and
>>>>> the more
>>>>> likely that it will be within the child's grasp. It is not hard to
>>>>> instil
>>>>> the taste for such dull literature in children, though there can
>>>>> be little
>>>>> doubt
>>>>> that it has a negative impact on the educational process,
>>>>> particularly in
>>>>> those immoderately large doses to which children are now
>>>>> subjected. All
>>>>> thought of style is thrown out, and in his babbling verse
>>>>> Chukovskii piles
>>>>> up nonsense on top of gibberish. Such literature only fosters
>>>>> silliness and
>>>>> foolishness in children."
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always felt that was a little harsh, since I have liked what
>>>>> little
>>>>> I've read of Chukovsky (remember, I have no Russian). But when I read
>>>>> Chukovsky's book, "From Two to Five" I realized that the feeling was
>>>>> mutual.
>>>>>
>>>>> See Chukovsky's comments about the Kharkov school (Vygotsky and his
>>>>> students) in the year 1929 (p. 188 of From Two to Five), Chukovsky's
>>>>> disparaging reference (p. 127) to pedagogues from Gomel (Vygotsky's
>>>>> hometown) and Chukovsky's attacks on "leftism" (p. 130 passim).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Part of this antipathy is probably Chukovsky's not very well
>>>>> concealed
>>>>> anti-semitism. Yale University Press recently published his diary,
>>>>> and there
>>>>> are coy hints of anti-semitism throughout.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 215, for example, we read that he goes to visit Krupskaya about
>>>>> the
>>>>> "pedagogue's" criticisms of "Crocodile" and succeeds in thoroughly
>>>>> offending
>>>>> her. He is consoled by Demyan Bedny, with the following words,
>>>>> which he
>>>>> quotes approvingly: "Have you noticed that the opposition is 1)
>>>>> all Jews and
>>>>> 2) emgres? Kamenev, Zinovyev, Trotsky. Trotsky will announce any
>>>>> day now,
>>>>> 'I'm going abroad', but we Russians have nowhere to go. this is
>>>>> our country,
>>>>> our spiritual property". (Both Demyan Bedny and Chukovsky were
>>>>> slated by
>>>>> Trotsky in "Literature and Revolution".)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On p. 281 of the diary, Chukovsky says his hatred for Trotsky is "an
>>>>> aesthetic viewpoint: his hair, his weak chin, his cheap provincial
>>>>> demonism--he's a combination Mephistopheles and court clerk."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly, on p. 161 of the diary, Chukovsky worriesthat he
>>>>> might turn
>>>>> out to be Jewish himself--his mother is of good Ukrainian peasant
>>>>> stock, but
>>>>> he is illegitimate and doesn't know who is father was. He needen't
>>>>> have been
>>>>> concerned, of course; you need a Jewish mother to be a real Jew.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Howevery, I think there is more to the Chukovsky-Vygotsky
>>>>> antipathy than
>>>>> racial hatred and Chukovsky's finely tuned instincts as a future
>>>>> Stalinist
>>>>> hack. Chukovsky believes that semantic meaning is learned partly
>>>>> by flouting
>>>>> it; no sooner does the child learn the meaning of a horse than the
>>>>> child is
>>>>> flouting it by talking of saddled flies and flying horses.
>>>>> Vygotsky shares
>>>>> this view, but for rather older children; he believes that
>>>>> imagination is
>>>>> something that comes to the child from the outside, through social
>>>>> practices
>>>>> such as imaginary play.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I want to take up your suggestion to continue the dialogue on
>>>>> forgiveness in a separate thread, possibly even under a new
>>>>> subject line,
>>>>> because it occurs to me this morning that it might indeed be
>>>>> possible to
>>>>> have recontextualization without decontextualization, and that to
>>>>> a certain
>>>>> extent that is exactly what is involved in metaphor.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David Kellogg
>>>>>
>>>>> Seoul National University of Education
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PS:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Some refs:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chukovsky, K. (2005) Diary 1901-1969. New Haven and London: Yale
>>>>> University Press.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chukovsky, K. (1928, 1963) From Two to Five. University of California
>>>>> Press: Berkeley.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Vygotsky, L.S. (1997) Educational Pedagogy. Boca Raton: St. Lucie.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> dk
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Ana Marjanovic'-Shane,Ph.D.
>>>
>>> 151 W. Tulpehocken St.
>>>
>>> Philadelphia, PA 19144
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ana Marjanovic'-Shane,Ph.D.151 W. Tulpehocken St.
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