On Nov 8, 2006, at 6:09 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
> What interesting turns this discussion is taking. I view it as VERY
> important
> that we have INTERNATIONAL contributions to the issues.
>
>> From time to time I am taken to task for thinking that chat and
>> american
> pragmatism
> have some affinities. But when Jiamwei writes:
> "when Mao talked about where correct ideas come
> from, he meant correct ideas of all kinds in the world. He used the
> word "correct" because according to him and his understanding of
> Marxism, practice is the ultimate criterion for testing the
> "truth".---
>
> the notion of some affinity comes back.
>
> What am I missing?
> mike
>
> On 11/8/06, Jianwei Zhang <zhangjw@kf.oise.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>
>> It's interesting to read your messages about Mao. You're right that
>> Chinese have no definite article. Whether it is "definite" or not all
>> depends on the context (or readers' reading of the context). As I
>> understand the context, when Mao talked about where correct ideas
>> come
>> from, he meant correct ideas of all kinds in the world. He used the
>> word "correct" because according to him and his understanding of
>> Marxism, practice is the ultimate criterion for testing the "truth".
>> Although ironically, his own practice in his later life revealed an
>> alternative perspective of this criterion: How well an idea
>> survives or
>> succeeds the test of practice is subject to subjective
>> interpretations,
>> which are often driven by human beliefs, desires, plots, and the
>> like.
>>
>> Jianwei
>>
>>
>>
>> =================================
>> Jianwei Zhang
>> Institute for Knowledge Innovation and Technology
>> OISE/University of Toronto
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7-Nov-06, at 1:10 PM, Tony Whitson wrote:
>>
>> > I agree that it's unambiguous that what Mao wrote is "correct
>> ideas,"
>> > rather than "the correct ideas."
>> > ^^^
>> > In fairness to the Swedisth translator, though, it should be noted
>> > that Chinese does not use a definite article like "the" (or
>> > le/la/les); so it's not as if he added the word where the original
>> > would have had one if it was supposed to be there.)
>> >
>> > On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Leif Strandberg wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> I checked my Little Red Book (from 1968) and saw that Mao wrote
>> about
>> >> three (3) kinds av social practice:
>> >>
>> >> the stuggle for production
>> >>
>> >> the class struggle
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >>
>> >> scientific experiments
>> >>
>> >> (p 206)
>> >>
>> >> Just a note from Sweden - where we had a conflicted conversation
>> >> about just that quote - as the Swedish translator wrote;
>> >>
>> >> Where do the (sic) correct ideas come from....
>> >>
>> >> But Mao wrote "correct ideas".
>> >>
>> >> It was interesting to look in the old book again - esp after
>> reading
>> >> Jung Chang's and Jon Halliday's book Mao The unknown story.
>> >>
>> >> Leif
>> >>
>> >> Sweden
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2006-11-05 kl. 16.51 skrev Tony Whitson:
>> >>
>> >>> Actually, Mao was attempting to render Marxist theory in a way
>> that
>> >>> would be accessible. His essay "On Practice" ["Shijian Luen" -
>> could
>> >>> be translated "On Praxis"]. The English is at
>> >>> http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/
>> volume
>> >>> -1/ mswv1_16.htm
>> >>> & that site would have it in many other languages as well.
>> >>> This is one of the essays that everybody in China studied
>> during the
>> >>> Cultural Revolution. I bet many knew it almost by heart. When Mao
>> >>> wrote for the masses, he was very deliberate about limiting the
>> >>> vocabulary so that everyone could read it (which was a good thing
>> >>> for second-year students of Chinese in places like the US!);
>> but he
>> >>> doesn't shy away from presenting concepts like "social praxis"
>> in a
>> >>> theoretically rich way.
>> >>> As I recall the standard English version of the slogan (which I
>> >>> don't see now, and which might actually be not from this text
>> >>> itself):
>> >>> "Where do correct ideas come from? From social practice, and from
>> >>> nowhere else."
>> >>> This was pretty straightforward Marxism, against Hegelian or
>> other
>> >>> idealisms.
>> >>> On Sun, 5 Nov 2006, Jay Lemke wrote:
>> >>> ...
>> >>>> Praxis, as I understand it, is not activism. It is the near-
>> fusion
>> >>>> of practice and theoretical understanding, with the latter
>> informed
>> >>>> by participation in practice, and informing an always-
>> learning and
>> >>>> ever-changing practice. I was, of course, quoting Mao a bit
>> >>>> provocatively in regard to correct ideas coming from the people,
>> >>>> and assumed it was clear what people he was referring to. He was
>> >>>> speaking, in context, of course, to cadres working with the
>> masses,
>> >>>> and he was talking about praxis without using the formal
>> >>>> vocabulary.
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >
>> > Tony Whitson
>> > UD School of Education
>> > NEWARK DE 19716
>> >
>> > twhitson@udel.edu
>> > _______________________________
>> >
>> > "those who fail to reread
>> > are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
>> > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
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