As a native Spanish speaker, I understand Paul's point. But I think we
should keep on the translation. There are many XMCArs, which are from
parts other than the USA which have not been exposed to Spanish at all
and that already make an effort, as we do, to communicate in English. If
they would start writing in, say, Russian, I would really appreciate a
translation. That said, I am very happy to hear Spanish speaking voices
here. Bienvenidos! Should XMCA create separate lists for each language
or should agree on a English/l2 structure of communication?
Paul Dillon wrote:
> Nacho,
>
> No estoy de acuerdo en principio. Quiero reflexionar un poco para mejor comunicar mi posicion mas tarde. Pero en breve, mis objeciones tienen que ver con el marco historico en el cual todo el proceso de aprendizaje tiene lugar y la necesidad de apoderamiento. En los discursos del CHAT se acostumbran a ver procesos historicos de corto plazo a pesar de que es una teoria que nacio y todavia tiene raices en una teoria de cambio historico a largo plazo. En donde se debe enfrentar esas contradicciones del tercer nivel de largo plazo? La cuestion de cortesia no me parece relevante si se trata de apoderar quienes han sido aplastado por la sociedad cuya lengua oficial es el ingles. Despues tratare de formular estos apuntes en una forma mas desarrollada.
>
> No obstante, quiero senalar la otra observacion que hice: si uno va a traducir, no seria mas conveniente hacerlo despues de haber escrito todo en un lenguaje?
>
> I disagree in principle. I want to think about it a little to communicate about it later. But briefly, my objections have to do with the historical framework in which the process of learning takes place and the necessity for empowerment. En CHAT discourses it's commmon to look at sort term historical processes even though it's a theoory that was born and still has roots in a theory of long term historical change. Where should the long-term tertiary contradictions be taken on? The question about courtesy doesn't seem relevant when we're dealing with the empowerment of those who have been squashed by the society whose official language is English. Later I will try to formulate these points in a more developed way.
>
> Nevertheless, I want to point out the other observation that I made: if one is going to translate, wouldn't it be easier to do it after having written everything in one language?
>
> Paul Dillon
>
> -- this is a babelfish translation of the Spanish message:
>
> I do not agree in principle. I want to reflect a little better to communicate my position but late. But shortly, my objections have to do with the historico frame in which all the process of learning takes place and the empowering necessity. In the speeches of the CHAT they get used to seeing historicos processes of short term although teoria is one that nacio and todavia has root in one in the long term teoria of historico change. In where one is due to face those contradictions of the third level of long term? The courtesy question does not seem to me excellent if it is to empower who have been squashed by the society whose official language is ingles. Despues will try to formulate these notes in a developed form but. However, I want to senalar the other observation that I did: if one is going to translate, nonserious but advisable to make it despues of have written everything in a language?
>
>
> -- this is a babelfish translation of the Spanish message: It would be great if it worked but as you can see, it doesn't work very well at all, better than nothing, but why should people who can read English but not write it be forced to spend all their extra time translating for the benefit of people who don't read Spanish???
>
>
>
>
>
> Nacho Montero García-Celay <nacho.montero@uam.es> wrote:
> Paul,
> I realize your point it's important. But I think of it as a matter of
> courtesy. The majority of XMCA's members are not able to read in spanish,
> so let start with the main language.
> Entiendo la importancia de lo queplanteas pero yo me lo planteo como una
> cuestión de cortesía. La mayoría de los miembros de XMCA no pueden leer en
> castellano, así que prefiero empezar por el idioma de la mayoría.
> Any way, your comment reminds me the idea that every single person has to
> be able to use her maternal language for communication, for learning and
> for research. Nowadays, it is not possible among hispanic people at USA, or
> aymara and quechua people, in Peuú, Chile or Bolivia (among others).
> En cualquier caso, tu comentario me recuerda que cualquier persona debería
> poder usar su lengua materna para comunicarse, aprender e investigar. Hoy
> día es algo que no es posible entre los hispanos en los Estados Unidos, o
> entre los aymaras y quequa, en Perú, Chile o Bolivia.
> NACHO.
>
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-- David D. Preiss Ph.D. Profesor Auxiliar / Assistant Professor Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile Escuela de Psicología. Av. Vicuña Mackenna 4860. Macul, Santiago de Chile. ChileTeléfono: (56-2) 354-4605 Fax: (56-2) 354-4844.
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