Re: [xmca] Unbelievable - & Spanish

From: Martin Packer (packer@duq.edu)
Date: Thu Oct 19 2006 - 15:00:32 PDT


Tony,

It's true that I don't find time to stay up to date on the primatology
literature, so perhaps my enthusiasm for 'unbelievable's' attempt to predict
evolutionary trends from cultural ones was unwarranted. Or perhaps it's just
that I think his predictions aren't so unbelievable, though his view that
racial prejudice will disappear and only class prejudice will remain strikes
me as overly optimistic.

But rather then draw attention to my ignorance and pessimism, let me change
the subject. Next semester I will be teaching a course on Vygotsky in
Spanish. (Yes, this will be a ZPD in which the teacher learns as much as the
students. Hopefully.) Can anyone tell me if any portions of the Collected
Works have been translated into Spanish?

Martin

On 10/19/06 10:03 AM, "Tony Whitson" <twhitson@UDel.Edu> wrote:

> Martin,
> I think the idea of culture affecting biological evolution was
> commonplace among primatologists at least as early as the 1960s, so I
> don't think Curry merits too much credit for that.
>
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006, Martin Packer wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> That is indeed one way of thinking about Vygotsky's view of the influence of
>> culture on biology. But I was referring to phylogenesis, not ontogenesis.
>> This prediction for the year 3000 is undeniably rather wacky, but it does
>> have the merit of recognizing the impact of culture on human biological
>> evolution.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On 10/18/06 9:28 PM, "David Preiss" <davidpreiss@uc.cl> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not so sure, Martin, this is a fair comparison. For Vygotskty
>>> the way culture shapes biology is by means of the internalization of
>>> tools and symbols. For this guy, what culture does is triggering
>>> changes in our sexual preferences and weakening our immune system.
>>> Very different, I guess.
>>>
>>> On Oct 18, 2006, at 10:00 PM, Martin Packer wrote:
>>>
>>>> But this is precisely an example of a theory in which socio-historical
>>>> evolution is seen as shaping biological evolution, no? As David
>>>> (Kellogg)
>>>> said a couple of days ago:
>>>>
>>>>> I think that Vygotsky's position on the connection between
>>>>> learning and
>>>>> development, and also the connection between ontogenesis and socio-
>>>>> historical
>>>>> development, and even the connection between socio-historical
>>>>> development and
>>>>> biological evolution is that all of these things are indeed
>>>>> linked, but
>>>>> nevertheless distinct. Linked but distinct.
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> On 10/18/06 6:02 PM, "David Preiss" <davidpreiss@uc.cl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if the guy REALLY thinks this or is just seeking publicity.
>>>>> I am astonished how many evolutionary theories make it to the press
>>>>> these days. What is making these theories so fashionable is beyond my
>>>>> understanding. Is like a postmodern, late capitalism state of mind
>>>>> Any guesses?
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2006, at 9:55 AM, bb wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Humanity may split into two sub-species in 100,000 years' time as
>>>>>> predicted by HG Wells, an expert has said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Evolutionary theorist Oliver Curry of the London School of
>>>>>> Economics expects a genetic upper class and a dim-witted underclass
>>>>>> to emerge. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6057734.stm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the year 2525
>>>>>> If man is still alive....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Mike Cole" <lchcmike@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: October 14, 2006 9:55:13 PM GMT-04:00
>>>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] interweaving
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>
>>>>> David Preiss, Ph.D.
>>>>> Profesor Auxiliar / Assistant Professor
>>>>>
>>>>> Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
>>>>> Escuela de Psicología
>>>>> Av Vicuña Mackenna 4860
>>>>> Macul, Santiago
>>>>> Chile
>>>>>
>>>>> Fono: 3544605
>>>>> Fax: 3544844
>>>>> e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl
>>>>> web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/iWeb/Site/Welcome.html
>>>>> web institucional: http://www.uc.cl/psicologia
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>
>>>
>>> David Preiss, Ph.D.
>>> Profesor Auxiliar / Assistant Professor
>>>
>>> Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
>>> Escuela de Psicología
>>> Av Vicuña Mackenna 4860
>>> Macul, Santiago
>>> Chile
>>>
>>> Fono: 3544605
>>> Fax: 3544844
>>> e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl
>>> web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/iWeb/Site/Welcome.html
>>> web institucional: http://www.uc.cl/psicologia
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> Tony Whitson
> UD School of Education
> NEWARK DE 19716
>
> twhitson@udel.edu
> _______________________________
>
> "those who fail to reread
> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
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