With respect to Don's Question:
Are we better served converging on the fact of the matter or by opening up
new ways of looking at some phenomena?"
Aren't both processes needed in dialogue/dialectic relation to each other??
mike
On 4/24/06, Judith Vera Diamondstone <JDiamondstone@clarku.edu> wrote:
>
> I fully agree with Martin and Ana's last post.
>
> Don writes, "we are working to clarify our "things", increase the
> precision
> and/or range of the relationships we are trying to describe, all with
> the goal of explaining things to a level where we understand, predict or
> even control."
>
> No, not control. Predict, understand, yes, but that does not necessarily
> imply a desire to control. It's a question of morality, as I understand it,
> that sets some social scientists apart from others. In respect for the
> autonomy of others (and I don't mean to suggest that we are autonomous,
> either, but that we allow one another the privilege to do otherwise than
> what we ourselves might want), we do not seek to control, but to make
> possible.
>
> I guess I fall into the latter of Don's hypothetical categories: "whether
> we are uncovering (either) fixed and immutable laws or schemes that move us
> along for the time being. Are we better served converging on the fact of the
> matter or by opening up new ways of looking at some phenomena?"
> But I don't think those categories square with the issue I articulated
> above.
>
> Judy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]On
> Behalf Of Cunningham, Donald James
> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 7:04 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: RE: [xmca] uncertainites
>
>
> Ana, did Rosa Parks refuse to give up her seat because of her thoughts?
> Or were there experiences, endowments, events, people, etc. - definable,
> observable, describable, relatable "things" that converged at that
> moment? Can we make sense of those "things? (I'm leaving things
> undefined for the moment).
>
> I think science by definition is deterministic. It seeks to identify
> things that cause, are related to, constrain, predict, explain other
> things. If the word determinism is objectionable, I can offer others,
> but the heart of the matter is that we assume things happen for a
> reason, we (collectively as scientists) attempt to identify those
> reasons and they are, at a minimum, useful(in the pragmatic sense) in
> helping us understand what's going on.
>
> Every time we, on this list, strive to define our terms (as in the
> discussion of zoped), identify _a_ or _the_ unit of analysis, and so
> forth, we are working to clarify our "things", increase the precision
> and/or range of the relationships we are trying to describe, all with
> the goal of explaining things to a level where we understand, predict or
> even control. Isn't that what sets us as scientists apart from those who
> merely opine?
>
> Our interesting differences emerge when we start considering what
> constitutes good science, whether we are uncovering fixed and immutable
> laws or schemes that move us along for the time being. Are we better
> served converging on the fact of the matter or by opening up new ways of
> looking at some phenomena?
>
> This may go to the core of the question I raised at the AERA workshop.
> How would you know a CHAT researcher if you saw one? Would they behave
> differently than other researchers?
>
> P.S. to Donna - Mike HATES that quote about my good friend Humpty. It
> never fails to set him off!
>
>
>
> Don Cunningham
> Indiana University
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On Behalf Of Ana Marjanovic-Shane
> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 12:55 AM
> To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] uncertainites
>
> I think that Luria was not right in that and that people-kind proved
> many times that "a shadow can carry stones" indeed.
> In fact I think that our whole science (social sciences) exists because
> we believe that thinking (shadow) has some force in it.
> Don't you think?
> Ana
>
> Mike Cole wrote:
> > I believe the issue was constraints and free will, donna and don.
> Sorry for
> > the distraction of too many words.
> >
> > These were the one's I was focused on. If you are interested in
> persuing the
> > issue beyond snuffing it, lets.
> >
> > Are constraints a way of avoiding the issue of free will? And will?
> Luria
> > wrote:
> >
> > "Many observations support our view that the consideration of the
> voluntary
> > act as accomplished by "will-power" is a myth and that the human
> cannot by
> > direct force control his behavior any more than "a shadow can carry
> stones".
> >
> >
> > Sniff.
> > mike
> >
> > On 4/21/06, Russell, Donna L <russelldl@umkc.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Don
> >>
> >> --for more word fun--
> >>
> >> " When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said,
> >> "It means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less."
> >> "The question is, said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so
> many
> >> different
> >> things."
> >> "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty,
> >> "which is to be the master--that's all."
> >>
> >> Lewis Carroll
> >> THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS
> >>
> >> Donna
> >>
> >> Donna L. Russell, Ph.D.
> >> Assistant Professor
> >> Instructional Technology
> >> Curriculum and Instructional Leadership
> >> School of Education
> >> University of Missouri-Kansas City
> >> (email) russelldl@umkc.edu <mailto:russelldl@umkc.edu>
> >> (website) http://r.web.umkc.edu/russelldl/ <
> >> http://r.web.umkc.edu/russelldl>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Quasi-Bedurfnisse" is the sound I make when I sneeze. But I love
> >> learning new words!
> >>
> >> Don Cunningham
> >> Indiana University
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> xmca mailing list
> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ana Marjanovic'-Shane,Ph.D.
>
> 151 W. Tulpehocken St.
>
> Philadelphia, PA 19144
>
> Home office: (215) 843-2909
>
> Mobile: (267) 334-2905
>
> ana@zmajcenter.org <mailto:ana@zmajcenter.org>
>
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> <http://www.speakeasy.org/%7Eanamshane>
>
>
>
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