ooops. here's is anon's suggestions, sorry for the slip up
mike
http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2006/03/penn_jillette_discusses_unrele.php
On 3/6/06, Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Fascinating extensions in interesting directions to this thread! One
> anonymous soul
> sent a website suggestion that those interested in the topic might want to
> follow.
>
> Thanks Anon!
> mike
>
>
> On 3/6/06, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org <ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Peter:
> > Thank you so much for the "defectology" tact. My perception is that few
> > on
> > the XMCA list ever consider the subject of abnormal psychology. Having
> > this perception provides me with the action of usually avoiding the
> > subject
> > because very few response are ever solicited when the topic is
> > raised. In
> > reality there are many reasons why some postings solicite huge responses
> > and others are trees in peopless (sp?) forests. Sometimes it is fun to
> > fantasize that I control what happens on the XMCA bulletin boad. :-)
> >
> > eric
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter
> > Smagorinsky To: <
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > < smago@uga.edu> cc:
> > Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca]
> > Experience: material, ideal, real, imagined
> > xmca-bounces who-is-at web
> > er.ucsd.edu
> >
> >
> > 03/06/2006 04:56
> > AM
> > Please respond
> > to "eXtended
> > Mind, Culture,
> > Activity"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The responses I've seen to Mike's initial question so far have dealt
> > with
> > people with "normative" psychological makeups. (I know some out there
> > are
> > already asking, "what is normative?" but bear with me.) I'll take a
> > slightly Vygotskian tack and use a "defectology" approach--that is,
> > introducing "non-normative" makeups such as personality disorders, which
> >
> > may include "disturbances in self-image; . . . ways of perceiving
> > themselves, others, and the world"
> > (http://mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=440&cn=8)--personality
> >
> > <http://mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=440&cn=8%29--personality>
> > disorders may have social or biological origins. Or people whose
> > perceptions have been affected (warped?) by experience--e.g., if someone
> > were to be released from the Abu Ghraib detention facility and
> > subsequently
> >
> > interpret everything as a threat.
> >
> > fyi I have extensive experience at home and work with people with such
> > makeups and am intrigued by the ways in which such people's
> > interpretations
> >
> > of concrete events depart in singular ways from most other people's
> > accounts of the same events--also with autistic children whose
> > interpretations of events are very hard to grasp to outsiders (e.g., the
> > son of a friend who is now 16 yrs old and has never spoken). I am also
> > intrigued by the ways in which psychological makeups get diagnosed (I've
> > witnessed the recommendation for hospitalization of someone whose single
> > Rorschach test results were outside the normal range of interpretation).
> >
> >
> > I am not an expert in these matters beyond my experiences and reading on
> > the subject. I wonder how someone like Vygotsky would approach this
> > question--he often turned to the "abnormal" to explain the normal. One
> > way
> >
> > is to consider the conditions that define what is "normal" (or perhaps
> > "real" to use Mike's original terms). Here I'll quote myself from The
> > Discourse of Character Education (Erlbaum, 2005):
> > Damasio (1994) argues in his somatic-marker theory against the classic
> > Cartesian mind/body binary, instead positing that brain and body are
> > integrally related not just to one another but to the environment. A
> > change in the environment, he finds, may contribute to changes in how a
> > person processes new information (cf. Luria, 1979; Pert, 1997); that is,
> > in
> >
> > response to developments in the surroundings, the brain will encode
> > perceptions in new kinds of ways.
> > Conceivably, then, changes in school climate can
> > contribute to the emotional well-being of students whose mental makeup
> > falls outside the normal range. The therapy for such students is still
> > widely debated. While medication and counseling have benefited many with
> >
> > nonnormative makeups in their relationships with others, the medical
> > model
> > has been criticized because it assumes that a normative mental state is
> > best for all. This criticism frequently comes up in debates about
> > whether
> > medications for Attention Deficit Disorder are prescribed too often for
> > any
> >
> > students who have difficulty focusing in school. Some argue that
> > prescribing such medications is designed more to increase the comfort
> > levels of those around such students than to help those students
> > themselves.
> > The jury is still out concerning the question of
> > whether
> > people with such diagnoses are sick and in need of medicine. Cook
> > (2004)
> > argues that relying simply on medication and counseling is inadequate;
> > that
> >
> > a broader environmental change that enables an understanding and
> > tolerance
> > of difference, and gives young people tools for managing their
> > difference,
> > is essential to helping young people construct positive lives for
> > themselves and in turn contribute to a more humane society. Taking a
> > punitive approach to difference, she argues, is regressive and only
> > makes
> > life more fragile for those characterized as different and more
> > emotionally
> >
> > and cognitively unhealthy for those who surround them.
> >
> > Well, a ramble with no resolution, but I did want to introduce some
> > issues
> > from the mental health field that are concerned with perception. Peter
> >
> > At 05:02 PM 3/4/2006 -0800, you wrote:
> > >The following quote from Dewey speaks to issues that have been ongoing
> > on
> > >XMCA and also provide context for a question I am hoping for some help
> > on
> > >(having been so successful with
> > >my question about references on narrative!). In particular, it concerns
> > the
> > >conclusion that experience is a hybrid of what is termed here the
> > physical
> > >and the mental. This snippet is provided courtesy of Matt Brown, a
> > member
> > of
> > >our seminar on mediational theories of mind.
> > >
> > >Here's a little tidbit from Dewey that I think is interesting for
> > several
> > >reasons: it answers the question from earlier about whether Dewey is
> > >concerned with the social, it provides a sort of summary statement of
> > >central Deweyan theses, and it is exceptionally clear (for Dewey). From
> > >Chapter 11 of *Art as Experience*:
> > >
> > >
> > >Experience is a matter of the interaction of organism with its
> > environment,
> > >an environment that is human as well as physical, that includes the
> > >materials of tradition and institutions as well as local surroundings.
> > The
> > >organism brings with it through its own structure, native and acquired,
> >
> > >forces that play a part in the interaction. The self acts as well as
> > >undergoes, and its undergoings are not impressions stamped upon an
> > inert
> > wax
> > >but depend upon the way the organism reacts and responds. There is no
> > >experience in which the human contribution is not a factor in
> > determining
> > >what actually happens. The organism is a force, not a transparency.
> > >
> > >Because every experience is constituted by interaction between subject
> > and
> > >object, between a self and its world, it is not itself either merely
> > >physical nor merely mental, no matter how much one factor or the other
> > >predominates... In an experience, things and events belonging to the
> > world,
> > >physical and social, are transformed through the human context they
> > enter,
> > >while the live creature is changed and developed through its
> > intercourse
> > >with things previously external to it.
> > >
> > >Here is my question, related to this characterization of experience:
> > >
> > >In various situations (in particular, I am thinking of various massive
> > >multi-user games and related cyber-interactional meeting places)
> > >it appears that people can, perhaps cannot help at times, confusing
> > what
> > we
> > >would normally refer to as "fantasy" and "reality."
> > >
> > >There is an extensive literature on the development of this distinction
> > in
> > >children's development, but I am seeking research on the
> > >distinction's presumed presence or absence among adults.
> > >
> > >Any and all help appreciated
> > >mike
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >xmca mailing list
> > >xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
>
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