Re: [xmca] subjectivity

From: Andy Blunden (
Date: Mon Oct 31 2005 - 22:50:28 PST

   The philosophical foundations laid by LSV, ANL & Co., are
   "counter-intuitive". The impression of being an individual, looking at
   images projected on to a little screen inside our heads, is a really
   powerful illusion. The idea of we individuals, making decisions which
   determine the course of our lives, against a "background" of society,
   is also a compelling illusion, an illusion which is the product of the
   conditions we are living today.
   What you are suggesting is firstly to ditch the philosophical concept
   of subjectivity by using the word "subjectivity" to mean individual
   consciousness, and ditch the concept of philosophical activity by
   denoting activity as "inter-personal." So right away it is hard to
   even discuss the subject, because we have lost the hard-won concepts
   on which the CHAT tradition has rested, and adopted instead the system
   of concepts on which individualist philosophy is founded.
   Everyone is prepared to accept that "individuals are influenced by
   their social environment". A scale from 0 to 100% is fine, and let's
   all agree that the truth is somewhere in the middle. But this is not
   the level of thinking that attracted me to CHAT, and has kept me
   listening to your debates, often lurking it is true, for almost a
   decade. I can get that anywhere.
   At 01:29 AM 1/11/2005 -0500, you wrote:

     why do you think that that the mediation is discounted if you talk
     about subjectivity and inter-personal processes on a continuum?
     Ana M-S
     Andy Blunden wrote:

        The problem is, IMHO, that once we define the relevant
     structure as
        inter-individual and intra-individual, we have moved away
     from the
       insights which have given the CHAT tradition its great strength.
        posing of the problem makes the individual the basic unit of
        and discounts the existence of mediation (i.e. the "CH" part of
        at a fundamental level. Personally, I think this is the wrong
     way to
       go to find a solution to the objectivist tendencies in CHAT.
       At 08:11 PM 31/10/2005 +0000, bb wrote:
            Further, subjectivity is a continuum of
     inter-individual to
          intra-individual processes (thus allowing for in-the-head
          such as memory and attention, as well across-the-heads
          such as communication?), supporting the claim that "This
          therefore helps to ascertain the agentive role of
          processes and of human subjectivity within a profoundly
         transactional, and object-related ontology of human life."
         Andy Blunden, on behalf of the Victorian Peace Network, Phone
                                    03-9380 9435
                 Alexander Surmava's Tour - September/October 2006

       1. [2]
       2. [3]
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    Andy Blunden, on behalf of the Victorian Peace Network, Phone (+61)
                                03-9380 9435
             Alexander Surmava's Tour - September/October 2006


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