Thank you, David, for the clarification, and for a offering a cultural perspective that is other than my own.
While some might think this discussion could "hijack" the discussion of the Stetsenko paper, I would disagree. This is where the rubber meets the road. What does one do if xmca refuses to co-evolve?
bb
>
> there are 2 things here:
>
> 1. What about if the author was a man and Ricardo would have said he was a
> acting like a "good boy". Would that be pejorative without being sexist? As
> I understood it originally, Ricardo was only intending to say that the
> author was acting like a good compliant scholar. I wonder if there is any
> other sexist sentence in the whole submission of Ricardo. I donīt remember
> other but I may be mistaken.
>
> 2. Of course, from an APA point of view, an according to the rules of the
> USA academy, the sentence of Ricardo is just a disaster. But, what do happen
> when you are not regulated by those rules?
>
> Itīs just like now, in a different level, the USA imposing a parlament to
> Iraq where half of the representatives have to be women (a criterion that
> even the USA does not accomplish), or the West efforts of nation building in
> Afganistan (after killing lots of civilians, most certainly, that nobody
> counts).
>
> You can, of course argue, that the milieu where Ricardo inhabits is "sexist"
> or that all Latin American milieus are sexist. But thatīs still a dangerous
> claim. Itīs the same claim that drive the American government to impose
> democracy by force or the French government to impose laicism in its muslim
> population.
>
> Of course there is machism in Latin America. But, who sets the standars of
> what is sexist and what isnīt? And, what about if the sentence of Ricardo is
> not considered sexist in Latin America?
>
> While, as I said, I do agree that in american academic english Ricardoīs
> words sound distateful, I urge you all of you to put his words in a context.
> The risk of not thinking twice here is the risk of ethnocentrism which is
> just as dangerous as the risk of misoginy or sexism.
>
> We all have to think twice if we are going to do XMCA a multiculturalist
> list. If not, let us just alienate the others, send Ricardo to lurk, and let
> us make one common sense prevail.
>
> David
>
>
>
> White, Phillip writes:
>
> > i thought of this - the second language issue.
> >
> > thinking about, for example, using "una chiquita buena" as a descriptor for an
> adult is perjorative, no matter what.
> >
> > have seen Stetsenko in action as discussant in Sevilla, poised, capable, and
> marvelously centered - well, Ricardo's term was beyond bounds.
> >
> > phillip
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of David Preiss
> > Sent: Fri 10/28/2005 12:19 PM
> > To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'
> > Subject: RE: [xmca] Objecting to objectification
> >
> > Hi Mary,
> > I empathize with the feelings, but I was wondering wheter we are
> > misinterpreting Ricardo. There may be issues related to the fact that he is
> > writing in a second language, and that the translation does not sound good,
> > although he did not intend to objectify. Ricardo, could you clarify?
> > That said, why do you say that xmca has been a men's club? Sounds strange
> > for a group of ex-collaborators and incoming followers of Sylvia Scribner...
> > david
> >
> > David Preiss
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Profesor Auxiliar / Assistant Professor
> > Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile
> > Escuela de Psicología
> > Av. Vicuņa Mackenna 4860
> > Macul, Santiago,
> > Chile
> > Fono: 56-2-3544605
> > Fax: 56-2-354-4844
> > E-mail: davidpreiss@puc.cl
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Mary K. Bryson
> > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:51 PM
> > To: XMCA
> > Subject: [xmca] Objecting to objectification
> >
> >
> > On 10/28/05 8:00 AM, "Ricardo Japiassu" <rjapias@uol.com.br> wrote:
> >
> >> The most part of article is a predictable critical review of
> >> Leontiev1s Activity, Counsciousness and Personality - not because Dr.
> >> Setsenko1s thinking cannot go beyond the obvious rather present an
> >> original approach to activity but, in my point of view, because she
> >> preffers to be a 3good girl2.
> >
> > Misogynist sexist objectification of any author or their work is absolutely
> > unacceptable on this list. If we are ever going to move forward in this
> > field towards a body of knowledges that is anything other than
> > over-determined by a particularly gendered history this kind of signifying
> > practice can not be condoned. You have almost managed in practical terms to
> > have a private men's club, with a few women relegated to the wings. If this
> > really is the intent, then be clear about it and the rest of us can move
> > elsewhere.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
>
>
> David D. Preiss
> home page: http://pantheon.yale.edu/~ddp6/
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
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