Dear All,
I appreciate the very coherent and eloquent background to the
foundations of AT that Ana Stetsenko provides. The first few pages
are a good resource in those times when a student or colleague asks
for an introduction to AT and you ruminate long enough for her/him to
leave the room:-). The relationship of Vygotsky and Leontiev's work
to Marx's work is important and A.S. brings back the argument of the
immaturity of CHAT in terms of theoretical unification (see a paper
by John-Steiner and Minnis from several years ago).
Like Ana, I'm not sure where to start in a discussion of a paper of
such richness. My initial thoughts are what is meant by a humanised
world of human subjectivity - page 14นด of the original version
(the reference to Bakhtin is interesting)? The contestation of and
unclear relationships between goals and motives remain for me crucial
issues that I'd love others to help me with.
Ana asks:
"One thing that I would like to discuss more is the difference
between object relatedness when it is part of a subjective activity
and when it is part of the social activity. How do we conceptualize
this relationship and the "object" in two different ways? and how are
these two object-relatedness-es mutually connected?"
Couldn't social semiotics help here?
Thought starters for, for me, a great paper.
Phil
On 25/10/2005, at 5:30 AM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote:
> As I am reading Anna Stetsenko's paper, I have some questions.
> Since no one else made any comments yet, I feel a bit lost as to
> where to start, especially since it looks like not everyone had an
> opportunity to read it.
> The main issue that Stetsenko introduces is that CHAT has not
> placed sufficient emphasis (or almost any) to the third "link" in
> the Cultural-Historical model, namely the "human subjectivity" [the
> first and the second "links" being: collaborative practice of
> material production and collective exchanges]. And this is exactly
> what she is trying to stress and simultaneously to show what needs
> to be foregrounded and reconceptualized in order not to drop "human
> subjectivity" from the picture of human development and human
> existence.
> Without giving human subjectivity (question: why cannot we say
> "psyche" in English?? I am not quite sure why not) an equal role to
> the social exchanges (communication) and material production, one
> runs a risk of a distorted reductionist view.
> OK -- I agree. These "exaggerations" have not been so pronounced in
> Vygotsky, in my opinion, but in the overall development of CHAT,
> there is a general tendency to foreground the social aspect (both
> as activities of production and activities of communication), and a
> consequence of that is in keeping the dichotomy between individual
> and social dimensions.
> But there are some works today that continue in the "other"
> Vygotsky's tradition -- and those are the studies of creativity,
> where the CHAT model can be introduced, and was introduced in
> almost precisely the same way that Anna Stetsenko discusses it.
> (cycles between individual and the social). For instance in S.
> Moran and V. Steiner's article "Creativity in the
> Making" (Creativity and Development, Oxford University Press ,
> 2003), the individual and the social are seen as a continuum of
> practice, where processes of internalization of social practices
> are contributing to creating an individual, BUT also the processes
> of externalization, i.e. individual creativity are contributing to
> making of the social reality.
>
> One thing that I would like to discuss more is the difference
> between object relatedness when it is part of a subjective activity
> and when it is part of the social activity. How do we conceptualize
> this relationship and the "object" in two different ways? and how
> are these two object-relatedness-es mutually connected?
> Also what is the role of "experience" (perezhivanie) in this whole
> process -- i.e. -- I can conceptualize personal experience, and I
> can conceptualize shared experience, but I cannot conceptualize
> social experience and the relationships between them.
>
> Ana
>
>
> --
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> --
> Ana Marjanovic-Shane
>
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