Do you mean unit of ANALYSIS Eric? Or did I miss a discussion about units of
measurement?
mike
On 7/6/05, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org <ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org> wrote:
>
> Ruqaiya;
>
> I believe your question harkens back to the conversation regarding "unit
> of measure" for Activity Theory. There is not the clear and concise word
> attached to the specificity of what is being measured and of course as I
> have stated before there may not ever be this unique and distinct word
> available.
>
> Pertaining to the new employee at a new job example; there will be actions
> that will be done without a prespecified goal and ther will be activity that
> revolves around a specific job goal. Some of the tools used will be
> transparent and some will be akward and unfamiliar. I am of the ilk that the
> activity related to the specific job goal is what is of interest to the
> social scientist and the automatic actions are merely "white noise" of the
> study.
>
> whattaya think?
>
> eric
>
> *"ruqaiya hasan" <Ruqaiya.Hasan@ling.mq.edu.au>*
> Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> 07/05/2005 03:42 PM ZE10
> Please respond to xmca
>
> To: <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> cc:
> bcc:
>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] LCA-- transparency
>
>
> I came into this debate a little late; I am, besides, not familiar with
> the
> language of description for talking of activity. So please bear with me. I
> am puzzled.
>
> My puzzlement is as follows: why should we deny the status of activity to
> human actions which have become automatised/automatic? A fundamentalist is
> most probably acting automatically in denigrating someone who goes against
> their belief . But this action can have very far reaching effects on our
> social existence. Or is this not one of the important points about
> activity
> as social practice?
>
> Is it not possible to think in terms of actions which implicate/assume an
> other e.g. talking, and actions which are limited to the body of the doer
> e.g. yawning. Now one interesting thing is that when one goes against the
> social modes of performing the latter type (which are essentially
> non-mediating) it comes to have a meaning that maybe quite potent eg if I
> saw you yawning as you read this message I might wonder if you are
> implying
> "how boring!"
>
> All this may be quite beside the point of your discussion -- and so I
> shouldn't go on. I guess it is a serious issue how to define/recognise the
> distinction between activity and action (eg in the activity of reading and
> the action of turning the pages). Rom Harre had some interesting thoughts
> on
> this.
>
> Ruqaiya
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wolff-Michael Roth" <mroth@uvic.ca>
> To: "eXtended Media, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] LCA-- transparency
>
>
> Mike and all,
>
>
>
>
>
> > 1. For the novice, can "learning to drive the car" be considered an
> > activity in and of itself? Say, for a 15 1/2 year old? Or it better
> > considered a complex form of action, where the motive is to gain
> > independence, etc?
>
>
> We cannot answer this question other than by looking at some concrete
> situation. Take a driving school. Evidently, this is a form of activity
> that has formed from previous forms of activity in a division of labor
> and breaking off. Within that system, producing people with drivers
> licenses appears to be the motive.
>
> From the perspective of the youngster, it may actually be only a goal
> toward getting a driver's license so that she or he can deliver pizza.
> Learning to drive and getting a license then is a way to expand one's
> action possibilities, gain control over life conditions, and this is
> achieved through participation in existing forms of work.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> > 2. Might the relation of language to acquisition of driving
> > expertise be accompanied by a transformation of language as explicit
> > to implicit semiotic means, a la Ruqaiya?
> >
> > Ed-- I will have to think more your example and interpretation and
> > how to relate it to the Bateson example. Are the kids you are talking
> > about to be considered expert in their use of cane's as tools of
> > navitation?
> > mike
> >
> > On 7/4/05, Blanton, William E <blantonw@miami.edu> wrote:
> >> Mike and Michael, I
> >>
> >> I am trying to work my way through transparency, mediation with
> >> language, interlaization, action and operation, so stick with me on
> >> this. We mediate the directing of our eyes to look, observe, notiice
> >> with language as we learn to drive down the road. As in other
> >> activty, the language we use to direct our eyes becomes internalized
> >> and the use of our eyes during driving becomes as looking while
> >> driving becomes an operation, even more so when we consider the
> >> learning and predicting of the brain as it mediates many of our
> >> unconscious lookings. If traffic signals were arranged differently
> >> each morning, many of our lookings would rise to the level of action.
> >> If I were to become blind and begin using a cane to move around, I
> >> would use language to mediate activity with a cane in my hand,
> >> directing the cane to move ahead as if feel and hear sensations
> >> though the movement and touching of the came. Eventually the cane
> >> becomes part of new functional system of seeing expressed through two
> >> modalities. Soon language mediating use of the cane becomes
> >> internalized. The cane has remediated my activity and rewired my the
> >> fuctional system for seeing.
> >>
> >> I wonder if the brain activity of one born blind and seing with a
> >> cane is similar to the brain activity of one who becomes blind later
> >> and mediates seeing with cane.
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth
> >> Sent: Mon 7/4/2005 4:15 PM
> >> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> Subject: Re: [xmca] LCA-- transparency
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > My observations of the blind have been a bit different than the one
> >> > Bateson recounts (which doesn't at all contradict what he recounts)
> >> -
> >> > at one point I spent some time at a school for the blind outside
> >> > Nashville, Tennessee. Many of the young people I observed swung
> >> their
> >> > cane to and fro in front of them (and in some particular situations
> >> > they let it drag to the side). They didn't seem to be looking for
> >> > confirming evidence (and they may, for the observant person sharing
> >> > their space, have been simultaneously been socially clearing the way
> >> > in front of
> >>
> >> But Ed, do you look for confirming evidence when you walk? Do look
> >> prior to setting your foot down, then confirm that it's gonna be okay.
> >> . .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > them) but for disconfirming evidence - that is, when the cane
> >> > exhibited stick-like properties. Opaqueness (as in a sheet of
> >> paper),
> >> > so to speak, was crucial and they seemed to be attempting to
> >> maximize
> >> > this with the cane. However, at the same time they needed to use
> >> > something that could act as an extension of themselves (a heavy iron
> >> > bar or a feather would not be ideal). Hence, it seems to me, it is
> >> the
> >> > doing (might one say the 'thoroughly internalized' here?) that was
> >> > mediated that is/was at stake and, in many instance, the 'ideal'
> >> tool
> >> > might be, in use, both appropriately 'opaque' and 'transparent' or,
> >> > perhaps, in use have the appropriate potentials for being both
> >> > 'concrete' and 'abstract.'
> >>
> >> Okay, I think we need to talk about these things not in the ideal way,
> >> not in the abstract, but analyze real concrete practical activity. In
> >> this, I think that both of your conditions are already met in the
> >> normal stick, it is both transparent--not thought about, not only
> >> embodied in operations, but also embodying operations such as
> >> providing
> >> a clearing before them--and material. It is only in their materiality
> >> that the canes can be used for what they are used in practical
> >> activity, that they have an effect, that they realize motives and
> >> goals.
> >>
> >> I think that a lot of our theoretical problems disappear when we
> >> approach the issue dialectically, beginning with an analysis of
> >> activity, not onsidedly with an analysis of tools or transparency or .
> >> . . We then end up capturing both the material and ideal aspects of
> >> the
> >> CANE IN ACTIVITY. Outside real practical activity, the cane is
> >> nothing,
> >> like any sign or word is nothing outside real concrete activity.
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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