Re: Way off thread - SLA

From: Kris Gutierrez (
Date: Sat Apr 09 2005 - 23:24:11 PDT

After AERA, i was going to ask Ellie (Ochs), and Chuck and Candy
Goodwin to recommend one of their articles and i'll post some for
consideration. i already asked the Goodwin's today. We're all
working together on a Sloan Center for the Everyday lives of middle
class working families but I'm not sure we have papers relevant to the
topic that are ready. maybe later. kris
Kris D. Gutierrez
Social Research Methodology
Graduate School of Education & Information Studies
Moore Hall 1026
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1521
On Apr 9, 2005, at 10:46 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote:

> We should also include people in the "pragmatic linguistics",
> especially people who study development. Elinor Ochs and Bambi
> Schieffelin, Elizabeth Bates are some names that come to mind.
> Ana
> Steven Thorne wrote:
>> Andy is absolutely right (which is why i put in the caveat about my
>> lists being off the cuff and partial!) -- ron scollon with his
>> innovative work on mediated discourse analysis does a great job of
>> bringing together vygotskian insights with close analysis of
>> language/discourse (as does debbie schiffrin's stuff on
>> intersubjectivity as achievement, + many others).
>> there's also a recently formed group that's putting into
>> juxtaposition conversation analysis and chat -- it's a troubled
>> marriage on a number of fronts, but it is the fissures and frictions
>> that seem to be producing grist for the mill of interesting/combative
>> thinking. a number of us will be presenting together at AILA (14th
>> world congress of applied linguistics) this summer.
>> steve
>>> Hey lets not forget the interactional sociolinguistics.
>>> andy
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Steven Thorne <>
>>> Date: Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:49 pm
>>> Subject: Re: Way off thread - SLA
>>>> hi Mike and all -- yes, if there's interest enough, it would be
>>>> great
>>>> to have a discussion that focused on language and chat (notice the
>>>> slight broadening of the topic to be more inclusive and potentially
>>>> interesting to a greater number of folks -- a tighter concentration
>>>> on SLA and/or bilingualism is also fine). though there's been very
>>>> interesting classical work on language within chat proper (bakhtin,
>>>> volosinov, vygotsky, shpet, and more obliquely ilyenkov), as well
>>>> as
>>>> recent work (gordon wells, jay lemke, r. engestrom, chik collins,
>>>> rommetveit, + some of the applied linguistics Phil mentioned)
>>>> [note:
>>>> these lists are off the cuff not meant to exclusive!], there are
>>>> many
>>>> highly related, and sometimes even explicitly chat linked,
>>>> researchers doing very interesting work that is broadly
>>>> commensurate
>>>> with chat (michael tomasello comes foremost to mind here).
>>>> but yes, other than this brief and hopefully encouraging missive,
>>>> we'll save this thread for another time.
>>>> steve
>>>> >Steven, Phil and other SLA advocates. Perhaps we can make this
>>>> line
>>>> >of work one thread in the
>>>> >online CHAT class I am scheuling for December-March next year. As
>>>> >you can see, between the
>>>> >play discussion upcoming (see papers on xmca papers for
>>>> discussion)
>>>> >and discussion of an
>>>> >article from MCA (see xmca discussions) I expect we will be
>>>> >struggling simply to pay attention
>>>> >to that and always-emerging other topics for the next several
>>>> weeks.
>>>> >mike
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >On Apr 7, 2005 12:27 AM, Steven Thorne
>>>> ><<>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >hi Phil and all -- there is indeed a strong and growing strand of
>>>> >applied and cognitive linguistics/SLA work rooted in vygotskian
>>>> and
>>>> >chat frameworks. a colleague (jim lantolf) and i are finishing up
>>>> a
>>>> >book length manuscript for OUP on this very theme. as you note,
>>>> our
>>>> >group here in the US has been active, but as you correctly
>>>> mention,
>>>> >most of our stuff has been praxiological, but not explicitly
>>>> >pedagogical (though of course we strive to "ascend to the
>>>> >concrete"!). in our forthcoming volume, we're trying to address
>>>> this
>>>> >through some chapters that look specifically at concept
>>>> development
>>>> >and the role of mediation, artifacts, and forms of participation
>>>> >that might foster the conditions of possibility (to rob a line
>>>> from
>>>> >foucault) for learning, and potentially, development (i won't
>>>> parse
>>>> >these terms here other than to revisit vygotsky's notion that
>>>> >learning precedes development, and development, especially in
>>>> >late-modern post-vygotskian theorizing, involves resolutions to
>>>> >contradictions > reorganization of mental processes > the
>>>> >dialectical becoming of a new kind of person (possibly in domain
>>>> >specific environments/performances).
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >lastly, i was a member of the old xlchc some years ago and only in
>>>> >the past week or so resubscribed -- why it took me so long is a
>>>> >mystery! but i'm very happy to be back.
>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> >steve
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>Sorry, All to open a counter-thread, but I have been doing some
>>>> >>back reading of reviews etc, and came across this intriguing
>>>> >>section of a review of a book devoted to second language (SL)
>>>> >>learning and linguistic form and meaning (see below). I was
>>>> >>intrigued by this section of the review (background: the field of
>>>> >>SL "acquisition" is still dominated by psycholinguistic theories
>>>> >>stemming from Chomskyian linguistic theory and conduit metaphors
>>>> of
>>>> >>communication, see Reddy's work of three decades ago). Like some
>>>> >>others (both active and passive list members, based on the member
>>>> >>list Mike mentioned earlier), I have been living the
>>>> contradiction
>>>> >>between the dominant platform in SL research and the one(s) that
>>>> >>are more semiotically based and focused on human interaction and
>>>> >>development. But should we always be in a position where we do
>>>> not
>>>> >>"fully agree" with the prevailing hegemonic views on aspects of
>>>> >>human development when we have such exciting "counter views"
>>>> based
>>>> >>on the interests of many on this list? Views which have spurned
>>>> >>their own debates between, for example, the strong socio-semiotic
>>>> >>and interventionist, though somewhat inaccessible theories of the
>>>> >>Australian SFL group based on Halliday, Martin, etc; the exciting
>>>> >>group within the US that bases its work on sociocultural theory,
>>>> >>albeit criticised for downplaying pedagogy (Lantolf, Wells,
>>>> Thorne,
>>>> >>Kramsch, etc); and the group of educational sociologists in the
>>>> UK
>>>> >>that have expanded and made more accessible the works of, for
>>>> >>example, Bernstein. Apologies for the geographical divides here,
>>>> >>but I am sure it is a little less in your face than religious
>>>> >>analogies.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >I'm young in this academic game, and I'd love some pointers on
>>>> ways
>>>> >to foster cross-talk rather than cross!-talk.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Phil Chappell
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >--
>>>> >Steven L. Thorne
>>>> >Assistant Professor of Applied Linguistics
>>>> >Linguistics and Applied Language Studies
>>>> > and
>>>> >Communication Arts and Sciences
>>>> >Associate Director, Center for Language Acquisition
>>>> >Associate Director, Center for Advanced Language Proficiency
>>>> >Education and Research
>>>> >The Pennsylvania State University
>>>> >Interact > 814.863.7036 | <> |
>>>> ><>
>>>> ~thorne/
>>>> >| IM: avkrook
>>>> --
>>>> Steven L. Thorne
>>>> Assistant Professor of Applied Linguistics
>>>> Linguistics and Applied Language Studies
>>>> and
>>>> Communication Arts and Sciences
>>>> Associate Director, Center for Language Acquisition
>>>> Associate Director, Center for Advanced Language Proficiency
>>>> Education and Research
>>>> The Pennsylvania State University
>>>> Interact > 814.863.7036 | |
>>>> | IM: avkrook

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