Uhhh, just to make sure, BM means British Museum?
:-)
mike
PS-- Your reading of the picture has always struck me as incredibly insightful
and productive. There is so much "copy theory/internalization" theory
and so much
expostulating against them that the total irrelevance of that
either/or dance gets drowned
out.
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 18:37:53 -0600, Peg Griffin
<Peg.Griffin@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I think it is a pretty good reproduction, Mike, thanks for the link!
> My first attraction to the drawing as a metaphor (I have always loved it as
> a Rembrandt) is as a way to demonstrate that Zo-ped and modeling are very
> far apart. It's like the Groucho Marx joke -- little walkers do not learn
> to "walk this way" as the adults helping them walk -- all hunched over and
> contorted in order to protect and be ready to give leeway for independent
> walking.
>
> Soon after looking at it for that reason, I began to notice about who was
> going where and that sort of thing -- it's rich about goal formation and how
> operations and acts are ensconced in and constitutive of activities.
> See that little one's foot and where it is poked out to?
>
> People in London can go to the BM and if it is not on exhibit they can ask
> to see it. They just take some precautions about clean hands and no markers
> and stuff. And then they bring it to you at a nice little desk, close up
> and no glass between -- in fact, you can take the same stance toward it that
> Rembrandt probably had when he was making it.
> It's breathtaking.
>
> Peg
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Cole" <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> To: <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 3:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Display questions in and outside the classroom
>
> > See rendering of Rembrandt's picture referred to by Dr. Griffin. It
> > ain't perfect, but it helps convey my sense of the argument.
> > mike
> >
> > http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/commonbeauty/Rembrandt-walk-h.gif
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:40:38 -0600, Peg Griffin
> > <Peg.Griffin@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > > Hi, Olga and all,
> > > There's a piece from a bit ago that might be helpful (or maybe not --
> it
> > > has something to turn everyone off -- on the one hand a metaphor based
> on a
> > > Rembrandt chalk drawing "Two Women Teaching a Child to Walk" and on the
> > > other attention to formal conversational analysis). (Come to think of
> it,
> > > the Rembrandt base could annoy two groups at once, couldn't it -- the
> > > anti-artsy metaphor folk and those in my country now who worry about
> people
> > > insidiously supporting gay families. I wonder if I can get Dobson to
> make
> > > Rembrandt as contemporaneously infamous as he has SpongeBob Square
> Pants?)
> > >
> > > Anyhow, the chapter is about escaping from the tyranny of equating a
> turn at
> > > talk with an isolated expression of meaning and about seeing some
> > > expressions (particularly those in Zo-peds) as multi-party/multi-turn.
> I
> > > think great teaching is that way. There is a not only student body, but
> a
> > > class as organism entity (when the class has been organ-ized), and the
> > > teacher's contributions and students' contributions express joint acts
> that
> > > can subsequently show up as concepts which have been appropriated by one
> (or
> > > more) of the participating contributors, i.e., having been learned.
> > >
> > > It builds on the "How the west has won" chapter in the Construction Book
> > > that Denis, Mike and I did an even longer time ago.
> > > It was published in 2000 as "Collaboration in school: 'I (don't) know'
> > > answers and questions." It's on pp. 472-491 in a book from Hampton
> Press
> > > that I helped to edit (with Peyton, Wolfram and Fasold) "Language in
> Action:
> > > New Studies of Language in Society."
> > > If there's a lot of trouble getting it and you want it anyhow, I might
> be
> > > able to unearth a Word file of an earlier version to email; just let me
> > > know.
> > >
> > > Peg
> > > PS Has anyone seen that and other drawings of little ones learning to
> > > walk -- it seems at Rembrandt's time Dutch people issued toddlers with
> > > protective headgear for learning to walk. And some people complain
> about
> > > motorcycle helmets....
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Griswold, Olga" <ogriswol@humnet.ucla.edu>
> > > To: <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:50 AM
> > > Subject: Display questions in and outside the classroom
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I am looking for literature on the different functions of display vs.
> > > > referential questions in the classroom. I am somewhat familiar with
> the
> > > > literature on the role of such questions in second language
> classrooms,
> > > but
> > > > most of the research in this area discusses the primary functions of
> > > display
> > > > questions as comprehension checks and as means of eliciting particular
> > > forms
> > > > (e.g. grammatical structures and/or vocabulary) form L2 learners. The
> > > > pedagogical advice seems to be to increase the number of referential
> > > > questions and to decrease the number of display ones in order to
> promote
> > > > more communicative classrooms.
> > > >
> > > > In my own analysis of classroom talk (a citizenship class at an adult
> > > > school), however, I am finding quite different functions of display
> > > > questions in the co-construction of content and linguistic knowledge.
> I
> > > am
> > > > new to the investigation of interaction in the classrooms that are not
> > > > strictly ESL, and I would very much appreciate any recommendations on
> any
> > > > literature addressing the functions of teacher questions in
> non-language
> > > > classrooms, especially in adult settings.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance to everyone who can help,
> > > >
> > > > Olga Griswold
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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