Alas! Hegel said it better than me. As an example of unconscious goals,
I guess one can mention all of those that are related to the
reproduction (and not the transformation) of culture: from the goals
underlying our civilized manners (I am thinking of Norbert Elias here)
to all the goals that allows us to permorm successfully in the everyday
theater of our lifes.
Quoting Eugene Matusov <ematusov@udel.edu>:
> In addition to what Sarah wrote, Leont'ev (1981) found an
> interesting
> Hegel's insight about the development of goal, "As Hegel correctly
> noted, an
> individual 'cannot define the goal of his action until he has
> acted....'"
> (p. 62)
>
> Eugene
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sarah Woodward Beck [mailto:sarah.beck@nyu.edu]
> > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:44 AM
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > Subject: Re: RE: cr&c
> >
> > David,
> > When I wrote that shared goals imply consciousness, I was thinking
> of
> goals as described
> > by Wertsch (1979, 1981) in an activity system. Goals are what
> give
> direction to an activity,
> > and according to Wertsch, Marx argued that the ability to set
> conscious
> goals is part of what
> > makes us human. So I was extrapolating from the level of activity
> to the
> level of culture in
> > my assumptions about the characteristics of a goal.
> > But perhaps the definition of "goal" needs to be expanded at the
> level of
> culture. What do
> > you see as some examples of "unconscious" goals in an ideological,
> complex
> society?
> > --Sarah
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: david.preiss@yale.edu
> > Date: Monday, March 22, 2004 1:06 am
> > Subject: Re: RE: cr&c
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Sarah,
> > >
> > > Why do shared goals imply consciousness? I think some shared
> goals
> > > can
> > > be quite unconscious, specially in complex (ideological)
> societies.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > Quoting Sarah Woodward Beck <sarah.beck@nyu.edu>:
> > >
> > > > I agree with Judy - I would remove trust and shared goals.
> Trust,
> > > > because it has strong moral connotations that don't seem to
> > > belong in
> > > > a basic definition of culture, and Shared Goals because this
> implies
> > > > a consciousness (of goals) that participants in a culture may
> not
> > > > possess. We are often not conscious of our participation in
> a
> > > > culture as culture.
> > > > --Sarah Beck
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Judy Diamondstone <jdiamondstone@clarku.edu>
> > > > Date: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:57 pm
> > > > Subject: RE: cr&c
> > > >
> > > > > > Establshing shared goals/visions?
> > > > > > trust?
> > > > > > division of labor?
> > > > > > complementarity?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Which of these things would remove from your own
> conception
> > > of
> > > > > culture?
> > > > > SHAREDness of goals
> > > > > Trust.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you think?
> > > > >
> > > > > Judy
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Mike Cole [mcole@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:38 PM
> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > Subject: re: cr&c
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can see that those working to create activities where
> > > > > > reflective practice
> > > > > > is valued and implemented have good reason not to want to
> > > > substitute
> > > > > > culture into Bill's paragraph. I am, of course, speaking
> of
> > > > > culture as
> > > > > > (better, from) a particular perspective and it is
> polysemic.
> > > > > Reflective> practice is also polysemic. Even the word
> > > polysemic is
> > > >
> > > > > polysemic.>
> > > > > > However, which of the following things is not
> characteristic of
> > > >
> > > > > culture> as understood in chat discourse:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am also uncomfortable about the substtution as I think
> > > > > collaborative> reflection is a highly specific practice and
> there
> > > >
> > > > > are some important
> > > > > > principles that givern it including the establishment of
> a
> > > > shared
> > > > > > vision or
> > > > > > goal, the establishment of trust, division of labor,
> > > > > complementarity, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Establshing shared goals/visions?
> > > > > > trust?
> > > > > > division of labor?
> > > > > > complementarity?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Which of these things would remove from your own
> conception
> > > of
> > > > > culture?> mike
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
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