Thanks a lot, David, for the reference! The book is now on my reading list.
Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: david.preiss@yale.edu [mailto:david.preiss@yale.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:33 AM
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: RE: Culture of honour
>
>
> Culture of Honor: The Psychology of Violence in the South
> by Richard E. Nisbett, Dov Cohen (Contributor)
>
> Paperback: 119 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.64 x 9.21 x 6.08
> Publisher: Westview Press; (May 1996)
> ISBN: 0813319935
>
> Would love to hear opinions about it. When I was checking this book,
> there was something about this book´s approach to the issue that made
> me feel a bit uncomfortable with its underlying notion of culture. As I
> could not figure it out, I abstained to do a final judgement.
>
>
> Quoting Eugene Matusov <ematusov@udel.edu>:
>
> > Dear David–
> >
> > Can you provide a reference to Nisbett, R's book about culture of
> > honor,
> > please?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Eugene
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: david.preiss@yale.edu [mailto:david.preiss@yale.edu]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 12:37 PM
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Subject: Re: Culture of honour
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a book of R. Nissbett about culture of honor and that
> > studies
> > > southern USA and that may be quite close to what you are looking. I
> > do
> > > not know the book in detail so I cannot express further opinions
> > about
> > > it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Quoting Peter Smagorinsky <smago@coe.uga.edu>:
> > >
> > > > I did not mean to sound offended, but wanted simply to ward off
> > > > overgeneralizations on a large and varied region.
> > > >
> > > > First, people do not agree on what is included in the American
> > South.
> > > > When
> > > > I lived in Oklahoma, some considered it Midwestern, others
> > Southern,
> > > > others
> > > > Southwestern (and that orientation might depend on which part of
> > the
> > > > state
> > > > you lived in--the part bordering Arkansas, the part bordering
> > New
> > > > Mexico,
> > > > the part bordering Kansas). To some Maryland is in the South,
> > to
> > > > others
> > > > not. Many people in Georgia think that my home state of Virginia
> > is
> > > > in the
> > > > North. And many people in southern Virginia do not believe the
> > > > Washington
> > > > DC metropolitan area (where I grew up) to be part of the South.
> > So if
> > > >
> > > > you're going to talk about the region, you need to consider that
> > it's
> > > >
> > > > ill-defined to begin with.
> > > >
> > > > Second, many perceptions of the region are based on the
> > dominant
> > > > culture,
> > > > when many other cultures exist. In the South most obviously
> > this
> > > > would
> > > > refer to African American culture, which itself includes a number
> > of
> > > > social
> > > > class distinctions. Metro Atlanta, for instance, has a robust
> > > > governing
> > > > and entrepreneurial African American social class that is not
> > present
> > > > in
> > > > other parts of Georgia where the legacies of slavery and
> > segregation
> > > > are
> > > > still present and affect economic opportunities for African
> > > > Americans. More recently, the large Latino/a immigration has
> > brought
> > > > new
> > > > cultures to the region--I emphasize the plural because of the
> > variety
> > > > of
> > > > nationalities represented (see, e.g., the large Cuban population
> > in
> > > > Miami
> > > > and burgeoning Mexican population in Georgia).
> > > >
> > > > They say that the South isn't as Southern as it used to be. A
> > lot of
> > > >
> > > > Northerners have relocated to the South because of the
> > temperate
> > > > climate
> > > > and business opportunities. It's still got an unfortunate base
> > of
> > > > racist
> > > > White residents (see the inflammatory debates about the
> > Confederate
> > > > flag),
> > > > both those blatantly hostile and those who discriminate more
> > subtly.
> > > > But
> > > > I've lived in a number of parts of the US and have found racism
> > > > everywhere. This is not to excuse Southern racists, only to
> > point
> > > > out that
> > > > they're hardly unique and perhaps more indignant given that not
> > long
> > > > ago
> > > > their prejudices were written into law and they feel that
> > they've
> > > > lost
> > > > their entitlement. In most of the state-wide elections we've
> > had
> > > > since I
> > > > moved here, the candidates who've played the race card have
> > lost.
> > > >
> > > > As for a Southern code of honor, I just don't know. I think
> > it's
> > > > like a
> > > > lot of other legacies (e.g., the Southern tradition of
> > civility,
> > > > which was
> > > > extended only to other Whites), it's part of a heritage that may
> > or
> > > > may not
> > > > have actually been practiced, and is referred to these days
> > primarily
> > > > in
> > > > terms of its loss. But like a lot of other Golden Age concepts,
> > it
> > > > may
> > > > never have existed as strongly as memory suggests.
> > > >
> > > > Well, hardly a chat analysis, and likely an impressionistic
> > ramble,
> > > > but my
> > > > 2 cents' worth, and worth every penny.
> > > >
> > > > best,Peter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 04:44 PM 1/6/2004 +0100, you wrote:
> > > > >Sorry Peter,
> > > > >
> > > > >I did not want to offend you or other Southern in any way. I
> > guess
> > > > it was
> > > > >the same generalization as talking about Mediterranean,
> > Arabic,
> > > > Islamic
> > > > >culture of honour. And that is one of my problems to be able
> > to
> > > > locate it
> > > > >clear and distinct, but still it exist floating around and
> > showing
> > > > its face
> > > > >here and there. So Peter, since you are born, raised and live
> > in
> > > > South and
> > > > >work with CHAT what is your reflections on the subject? Can you
> > give
> > > > me a
> > > > >tread to start with?
> > > > >
> > > > >Yours curious
> > > > >
> > > > >Hans
> > > > >
> > > > >Den 04-01-06 16.19, skrev "Peter Smagorinsky"
> > <smago@coe.uga.edu>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hans wrote: (I heard that some say that the culture of honour
> > in
> > > > the South
> > > > > > of USA should be somewhat equal to the Arabic?)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have lived more than half of my life in the American South
> > and
> > > > would say
> > > > > > that, while such a strain of belief might exist, it does
> > not
> > > > characterize
> > > > > > the whole region. The South is a large and diverse place,
> > in
> > > > spite of what
> > > > > > you see depicted in the media, which prefers
> > Deliverance-style
> > > > backwoods
> > > > > > caricature (note that almost any character in a movie or TV
> > show
> > > > with a
> > > > > > Southern accent is an idiot).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Peter (native of Virginia, current resident of Georgia)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 03:41 PM 1/6/2004 +0100, you wrote:
> > > > > >> Hi,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I am just starting to do an assignment about young people,
> > who
> > > > are
> > > > > attracted
> > > > > >> to their own sex, how they are exposed to violence in the
> > family
> > > > due
> > > > > to the
> > > > > >> culture of honour. And how the social service and police
> > deals
> > > > with it. It
> > > > > >> is not about what you call the coming-out process and
> > problems
> > > > around it.
> > > > > >> More that the violence towards girls in some family, even
> > > > killing,
> > > > > have put
> > > > > >> a focus that there also could be the same problem for
> > young
> > > > people who are
> > > > > >> attracted to their own sex, living in such families.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In Sweden we have had the last years two killing of daughter
> > by
> > > > their
> > > > > >> fathers in the name of family honour, since the daughters
> > had
> > > > Swedish
> > > > > >> boyfriends instead of the man to marry that the parents
> > have
> > > > chosen from
> > > > > >> their own culture. In both cases the families have come
> > from
> > > > rural Middle
> > > > > >> East culture. (I heard that some say that the culture of
> > honour
> > > > in the
> > > > > South
> > > > > >> of USA should be somewhat equal to the Arabic?) That made
> > people
> > > > in Sweden
> > > > > >> focus on patriarchal family system threatening or
> > conducting
> > > > violence on
> > > > > >> their children in the name of cultural honour. Culture of
> > > > honour, in the
> > > > > >> violent form, seems to be connected to ³shame-culture²,
> > where
> > > > the public
> > > > > >> esteem is the greatest good and to be ill spoken of the
> > greatest
> > > > evil. In
> > > > > >> the name of this honour-code mostly fathers and brothers
> > use
> > > > threats of
> > > > > >> violence, violence and in extreme cases killing to rule
> > over
> > > > their
> > > > > >> daughters/sisters. In Sweden we think that the same
> > condition
> > > > exist for
> > > > > >> young people who are attracted to their own sex. The
> > Government
> > > > therefore
> > > > > >> have supported funds for this report.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> But since I want to base the report on culturalhistorical
> > > > activitytheory I
> > > > > >> want to ask following.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I want to know if someone has done some researched in this
> > area?
> > > > Since I
> > > > > >> want to lift the question away from just Middle
> > East/Arabic
> > > > culture I need
> > > > > >> to focus more about what is building up a culture and in
> > this
> > > > case the
> > > > > >> culture of honour, and especially the culture that cherish
> > > > honour more
> > > > > than
> > > > > >> life. And here I have not yet come across a good
> > definition
> > > > about culture
> > > > > >> out of CHAT. Do you know a good operational one? I have not
> > yet
> > > > found
> > > > > >> something using CHAT to explain family violence - in this
> > case
> > > > towards
> > > > > sons
> > > > > >> and daughters because of their sexuality.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have found some good thoughts in Lave and Wenger about
> > the
> > > > learning
> > > > > >> process which could be used to describe why the culture of
> > > > honour still
> > > > > >> exist in families, even though they live in a country that
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > allow that
> > > > > >> kind of law.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Could anybody help me?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Yours
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hans Knutagård
> > > > > >> Sweden
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
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