All fair points Charles,
I do live in the real world along with everyone else, but I find it very
helpful to know what I am for and what I am against. In times like the
present, what else is there but ethical politics??
In relation to the state, of course it is very attractive to hang on to the
idea of the state as custodian of educational quality etc., and at this
very moment there is no alternative, but I don't see that as the long term
future.
Andy
At 08:09 AM 9/10/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Andy wrote:
>
>>My view:
>>(1) Being a producer and buyer of commodities is a condition I want to
>>get out of, and
>
>So you're not out of it yet, then. Still, how do you plan to get out of it?
>
>>(2) Commodity production is the foundation of a society which gives us
>>war, famine, serial murder and all sorts of inhumanity, so I do what I
>>can to encourage other people to limit their enthusiasm for commodity
>>production and exchange.
>
>Limiting one's enthusiasm for commodity production and exchange is a good
>practice, but I imagine people can find enough reasons to kill each other
>and nature causes enough famines on its own without blaming everything on
>commodity production.
>
>>(3) Commodification of education is hardly more despicable than
>>commodification of food production, health care, physical safety or
>>anything else.
>>(4) The state acting as a mediating term in your relationship with a
>>student is actually a more archaic and detestable relationship than that
>>of commodity exchange.
>
>If the state pays a teacher's salary and dictates rules of accreditation,
>school management, teaching, student-teacher relationships, etc., why deny
>its mediating nature simply because you don't like it?
>
>Charles
>
>
>
>>Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>At 04:10 PM 9/09/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>>>Martin,
>>>
>>>Certainly things shouldn't be reduced to commodity exchange. (It does
>>>sound rather negative, especially in education.) And as you said, you
>>>have many responsibilities. Even so, aren't you selling your services to
>>>the state and also acting as an agent of the state? As such, why
>>>couldn't one of your responsibilities as state agent be seen as
>>>providing a service to your students?
>>>
>>>Charles Nelson
>>>
>>>>But the initial premise is the in the first sentence. A teacher is not a
>>>>service provider.As a teacher I do not sell anything The relationship is
>>>>not one of service and provision and receipt and a student is not a client.
>>>>
>>>>Elsewhere I have clinets. They contract to me for a service I provide. The
>>>>dynamics and obligations on all sides are different. As a teacher I have a
>>>>multiplicity of responsibilities and those go beyond the student. In my
>>>>case the state pays for both my participation and the participation of my
>>>>students (are they the client?).
>>>>
>>>>As a teacher I do not sell anything. We are not involved in any form of
>>>>commodification. The student is expected to be more than a receiver of a
>>>>service, they are not consummers, customers or clients. Things should not
>>>>be reduced to commodity exchange. It is inherently a capitalist way of
>>>>seeing the world. It loses sight of other ways of interpreting social
>>>>relations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Martin Owen
>>>>Labordy Dysgu- Learning Lab
>>>>Prifysgol Cymru Bangor- University of Wales, Bangor
**************************************************
* Andy Blunden, Teaching
Space Support Team Leader
* University of Melbourne 8344 0312 W, 9380 9435
H
* Email ablunden@unimelb.edu.au W, andy@mira.net H
*
http://www.ists.unimelb.edu.au - Work
* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ -
Home
**************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Oct 10 2001 - 15:49:12 PDT