Dear Diane, Eva, Jay, and all the others (still/ already wired),
thanks for replying to my questions on the issue of remembering.
There might be some mutual misunderstandings, however,
as far as I can see, the underlying assumptions seem to
be quite close.
I do also - as I think Jay pointed out - would like to look
at memory as a dynamic process in which past events are neither
*stored* nor are they *retrieved* from any kind of neuronal or
rather symbolic "representations" (in terms of trad. cogn.psych.).
I just wanted to point out that memory first and foremost is
an UNCONSCIOUS (involuntary) process, being realized on the level
of operations; and
that remembering (as all examples given by the three of you show),
might be either triggered unintentionally or - when our
"memory stops to serve us well" - we try to elaborate on
our "blind spots", begin to actively re-construct "missing
values" (;-), co-construct the past by collective remembering.
The language issue:
Indeed, my first posting was initially triggered due to a
language problem. I don't know whether Zinchenko makes a
distinction between memory and remembering in Russian.
By way of Eva*s comment I was becoming aware again, that in
English there is not such a sharp distinction between memory
("Gedächtnis" as a psychological function) and remembering
("Erinnern") as an either (goal-oriented) action or (engaged)
operation.
My point:
The argument for differentiating between memory and remembering
is just to differentiate between
- the point in time when a certain experience (of an event,
a smell, a breakdown, a success, etc.pp.) is being made and
(new) knowledge is acquired,
[memory / "Gedächtnis" as a dynamically evolving structure]
- the point in time when we remember what we have learned some
time, weeks, years or decades before ...
[remembering / "Erinnernung" as an active re-construction of
the past here and now, including this "short-term-remembering-
in-action" as Jay noted, bringing about that feeling of continuity/
that Bergson called "durée"].
there are so many vivid illustrations of phenomena, when
we do obviously remember incidents from our past experiences,
though we do not have a clue, that we did actually experience
these, as for example the post-hynotical suggestions:
we do carry out certain tasks that have been "asigned" to us
verbally when being hypnotized, being back from hypnosis WITHOUT
being aware WHY we do this. People REMEMBER that they should do
this and that, however, they do not REMEMBER why. MEMORY has
kept on working during hypnosis ...
anyone willing to walk further on our trace of remembrance ?
best from zurich lakeside,
christoph
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