Eugene and others,
Does it make sense? What do you think?
I see what you mean :).
I read through your message, but was unclear how it diverged from the
Vygotsky/Leont'ev quotations. I agree with you about translations which was
why I made sure the Russian word was there hoping a response.
The translations are important since "smysl" has been translated as meaning
in Vygotsky's article on play. In the U.S. meaning seems to invoke a
hybridity of both as in the classical debates about where meaning resides.
While I agree with you about Vygotsky in the context of development and
decontextualization, I take his discussion of meaning being a zone of sense
in the more philosophical spirit. I have a manuscript from the Golden Key
Program (Vygotsky's granddaughter) and she makes a strong case about
Vygotsky's zones of sense being neglected in the work of Leont'ev. I think
the two quotes point toward a different degree of emphasis between the two
concepts.
In a paper you offered up for a reading awhile back (participation), you
relied on Marx extensively. Marx, of course, made very similar arguments as
Vygotsky, we could maybe even say Vygotsky completes Marx (Andy's paper on
Vygotsky's dialectical method), yet there was a "philosophy" that I assumed
you saw useful. Which is a round about way of saying one's philosophy can be
useful eventhough we may not agree with how its applied.
Not meaning to invoke an argument for historical realitivism, but it seems
there was a certain way of thinking about children, knowledge etc. at that
time which we have the benefit to approach in retrospect. One thing that
has always intrigued me about Vygotsky was his Mozart quality which I don't
read as a consistant rational attempt at formulating a theory. I think
Vygotsky's emphasis on egocentric speech, sense, meaning etc. was intended
to go much deeper than formulating a developmental theory - concepts or
otherwise.
On page 255 in T&L Vygotsky quotes Gumilev
...and like bees in a deserted hive
The dead words have a rotton smell.
This was not just because he liked the guy, and he was worth quoting, but
was directed at Mr. Stalin himself and the so called Marxists. Which is to
say that Vygotsky was developing a theory of thought and language that was
emplotted against Stalin's.
Which is a long way of saying I agree with you about Vygotsky in regards to
development, but I think his ideas about egocentric speech, sense, meaning
were of the more philosophical nature.
Nate
Nate Schmolze
http://www.geocities.com/nate_schmolze/
schmolze@students.wisc.edu
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"Overcoming the naturalistic concept of mental development calls for a
radically new approach
to the interrelation between child and society. We have been led to this
conclusion by a
special investigation of the historical emergence of role-playing. In
contrast to the view
that role playing is an eternal extra-historical phenomenon, we hypothesized
that role playing emerged at a specific stage of social development, as the
child's position in society changed
in the course of history. role-playing is an activity that is social in
origin and,
consequently, social in content."
D. B. El'konin
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