Re: prior claims on sexuality

Ricardo Ottoni (rjapias who-is-at ibm.net)
Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:21:20 -0200

Some studies point that women in Ancient Greece even could watch
Comedies. They only could go to watch Tragedies aside her "men". And
Theater, than, was made only by men actors.

In Shakespeare times 'Juliet' was performed by a man actor (Can you
imagine how would be different to watch 'Romeu and Juliet' with a man
playing 'Juliet'?)

Well, Vygotsky in 'Psychology of Arts' points the scenic convention of
Theater in Elizabetanian times as the starting point to understand
'Hamlet' and because of that, criticizes Stanislavsky/Craig "puttinng
on stage" of 'Hamlet' by 'Art Theater of Moscow' pgs 226-235).

In Theater history, the women only will be, sistematically and in fact
on the stage, acting, from XVIII century ahead. So than beggan gold
theater ladies era (Eleonora Duse, Sarah Bernadt etc).

Of course, in spetacular teatrical practices of some different cultures
from ocidental one, women is "on the stage" since its begining. Well,
even in Ancient Greece it is possible to find them performing the
"Mimos" (danced theater). But the power to say words on stage... in
ocidental world, only from XVII century.

One more thing on sexuallity:
As 'heteros' can have 'homo' lovers, the other side of the coin does
really exists. There are gay men who have 'hetero' woman lovers. Those
women are called here in Brazil as "sexygay" and even Caetano Veloso - a
very known musician here - had composed a music dedicated to them whose
title is 'Sexygay'.

A TV network here, some times ago, showed some bizarre couple, composed
by man who were travestis (silicon teets) that maried gay woman and live
their sexual lives very well - at least in front of cameras.

Anthony Scott wrote:
>
> Prior claims:
>
> Oedipus Plays of Sophocles : Oedipus the King, Oedipus at Colonus,
> Antigone ~ performed at Thebes and Eleusis, quite a long time before
> Freud! (ok - it is mother/son incest, not father/daughter incest, but
> doesn't one concept imply the other?)
>
> I guess I am claiming that the concept can exist before "social
> science" itself exists, and that there can (should) be "truth" in
> theater/drama...
>
> The role of, power of, women in classic Greece is presently hotly
> debated by that community of scholars. Not that we have any
> surviving plays authored by women...
>
> Tony
>
> >From: dchodges who-is-at interchange.ubc.ca (Diane HODGES)
> >Reply-To: xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu
> >To: xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu
> >Subject: Re: sexuality
> >Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:14:36 -0800
> >
> >At 0:07 4/15/99, Bruce Robinson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>- actually Freud said as much, that everyone is basically bisexual,
> >>>sexuality moves on a continuum,
> >>> and society
> >>>pushes people to choose. indeed, Freud was one of the first to say
> that
> >>>society is fucked up, therefore we are.
> >>>diane
> >>
> >>
> >>Is that what he said?? If so, he was certainly not the first to say
> it.
> >>
> >>Bruce
> >
> >one of the first to identify heterosexuality as a social construct;
> >and certainly the first to identify father-daughter incest as an
> >aberration of heterosexuality;
> >
> >admittedly, he was baffled by lesbianism, but - well, like Katherine
> >Brown noted, as soon as women start getting involved, the men move
> on to
> >some other domain.
> >
> >is there someone you are thinking of who was the 'first' to identify
> >heterosexuality as social?
> >diane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > When she walks,
> > the revolution's coming.
> > In her hips, there's revolution.
> > When she talks, I hear revolution.
> > In her kiss, I taste the revolution.
> > (poem by Kathleen Hanna: Riot Grrl)
> >******************************************
> > diane celia hodges
> > university of british columbia
> >centre for the study of curriculum and knowledge
> > vancouver, british columbia, canada
> >
> >
>
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