Re: Help me to understand...
maria judith (costlins who-is-at ism.com.br)
Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:50:42 -0200
Bill, it is interesting to study the intersections between Piaget and
Vygotsky, and I am doing this with my group of pos-graduation at the
university. Don't you think that the idea that Piaget didn't pay
attention to the social interaction was a mis-understanding made by
Vygotsky? Piaget survived Vygotsky in almost half a century and he
improved his theory. He continued with his research and wrote a lot of
articles and books where he thinks about the social interaction. We
can't continue with the same perspective about Piaget like Vygotsky
because we know the rest of the Theory. Vygotsky knew only the "young"
Piaget. Thanks, maria judith lins
Bill Barowy wrote:
>
> At 08:03 AM 4/29/98 -0200, maria judith wrote:
> >hello Kwang-Su Cho,
> >I agree with your perplexity. I am working with Piaget's theory and the
> >social interaction. Piaget said that it is impossible to get out from
> >the concrete operative period to the logical thinking of the adolescence
> >if the individual can't interact in the society. I think that there is a
> >misunderstanding when people say that Piaget't didn't pay attention to
> >how important the social interaction is. The Genetic Epistemology
> >explains the logical development of the thinking of subjects who need
> >the social interaction to get the goal.
>
> I agree Maria Judith with you AND with Barbara Rogoff:
>
> >> Piaget's use of the isolated individual as the
> >> unit of analysis, in my view, makes it impossible to develop
> >> a sociocultural approach to cognition using his theory as
> >> the basis;sociocultural aspects of cognition are not merely
> >> the addition of individul changes in thinking resulting
> >> from social interaction.(Rogoff, 1998, p. 686)
> >>
>
> Barbara's point is whether Piaget's theory, which centers on 'the
> individual' can be used as the *basis* for a sociocultultural theory.
> Piaget mostly focusses on development of the one, sometimes in the presence
> of the many. This does indeed offers valuable insights into development,
> but it is a partial view. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.
> People come together in ways that are more than what you can add from their
> individual contributions taken from a view on the individual. Similarly
> however, sociocultural theories also offer partial views, but these
> complement Piagets ideas.
>
> There are intersections in the views:
>
> "In simpler terms, the child does not at first succeed in reflecting in
> words and concepts the procedures that he already knows how to carry out in
> acts, and if he cannot reflect them it is because, in order to adapt
> himself to the collective and conceptual plane on which his thought will
> henceforth move, he is obliged to repeat the work of coordination between
> assimilation and accomodation alread accomplished in his sensorimoter
> adaptation anterior to the physical and practical universe"
>
> Piaget, The construction of reality in the child, p 407
>
> There are similar ideas here to what Vygosky describes, though Piaget
> focusses more on what happens when a person interacts with a physical world
> in which social interactions are secondary. Vygotsky impresses me as
> accomplishing the complement. Situations outside the laboratory might
> include either. I am reminded of one in which I recently walked up to a
> boy code-named 'Pablo' who was sitting alone, playing a very challenging
> game, at a computer. As I began to interact with him, Vygotsky entered the
> conversation, and Piaget moved to the side. I realize that not only did I
> have difficulty understanding the game, so also did the child. What was he
> doing prior to my arrival? He seemed completely occupied as I approached.
> I would have liked to debrief with both Piaget and Vygotsky.
>
> Bill Barowy, Associate Professor
> Technology in Education
> Lesley College, 29 Everett Street, Cambridge, MA 02138-2790
> Phone: 617-349-8168 / Fax: 617-349-8169
> _______________________
> "One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from yourself
> and watch yourself softly become the author of something beautiful."
> [Norman Maclean in "A river runs through it."]