> Dewey, I found your comments about Rosa's and Gerrardo's and your
>concern regarding the effects of science-talk from students on fellow
>students to be very interesting. It triggered memories that I have which
>I am sure all of us have from classrooms in which specific 'talk' seems
>to have greater validity than other.
>
> I believe too that the reasons for students feeling intimidated
>is more complex than just science-talk. Student histories, academic
>histories - as in how previous teachers as well as yourself respond in
>kind to science-talk. The competitive nature of schools and grades. The
>fact that while it is always said that to ask questions about what one
>doesn't know is valued, in fact little is done so that to demonstrate
>one's ignorance is of social value. By, little is done, I means that
>there are no classroom activities that enhance and support questions of
>ignorance or misunderstandings. In this culture a great deal of group
>trust is necessary in order to take the risk of demonstrating one's
>ignorance.
I agree that this is not just an issue of 'science talk,' but 'science
talk' in context of the classroom and 'who' the students happen to be. On
my darker days I have a hard time not believing that 'science talk' was
'invented' to keep all but an 'elite' in their places. Realistically,
'science talk' serves a purpose within the scientific community, while it
may have its drawbacks there too. But, my concern is about the learning of
science, physics in particular, in classroom settings which are not
populated mostly by people either already using it or ever intending to be
scientists. The effect this 'voice' has on these people, we cannot
continue to afford as a society, I think.
Part of the problem with 'science talk' is that it comes out of the same
tradition about the nature of knowledge as the dominant view in education,
namely that absolute knowledge of what "is", truth, exists intependently of
the knower and that this knowledge can be transmitted to others who listen
and prepare themselves properly. (...all others, too bad...) Of course,
the traditional environment of schools and the expectations that they
generate would be expected to synergize the effect.
I could not agree more with your statement: "In this culture a great deal
of group trust is necessary in order to take the risk of demonstrating
one's ignorance." Time and again I have watched what trust was generated
take a back seat to just one student using this 'voice.'
> The class intimidation by scinece-talk is an important marker for
>something, for sure. But it is not a hegemony over the class - much more
>is going on, and I suspect that in each class the answer to that question
>will be specific to that class and their attributes of shared and
>unshared histories.
I guess this depends on what one thinks of as 'hegemony.' I don't happen
to think of it as a necessarily conscious effort on the part of all who
participate in the 'hegemony.' I'm not sure that those who watch it happen
would as easily jump to the conclusion that there is not a hegemony. I
don't believe that 'science talk' is something that exists independent of
its effect on the hearer. In fact, I would not have noticed it except for
the behavior of the students in response to this way of speaking; hence my
view of it as a distinction is formed by this response of the other
students. A big part of what goes on in a hegemony is how people react to
what is happening. As certainly as I watch it happen, I see many people
who seem to automatically act cognitively submissively in response to this
'voice.'
> This suggests to me that the best place to study the effects of
>any 'voice' within a classroom is within each classroom at that time.
>This would mean that the teacher would necessarily have to build in
>reflexive time within class time, and possibly even reflexive activities
>outside of the classroom.
I agree with you that in the classroom is the best, if not the only, way to
study this. The reflexive time is the hard part, esp with 150 students.
> As always, Dewey, I look forward to and enjoy your comments.
Same here, Phillip.
Dewey
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Dewey I. Dykstra, Jr. Phone: (208)385-3105
Professor of Physics Dept: (208)385-3775
Department of Physics/SN318 Fax: (208)385-4330
Boise State University dykstrad who-is-at varney.idbsu.edu
1910 University Drive Boise Highlanders
Boise, ID 83725-1570 novice piper
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