[Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam International
Andy Blunden
ablunden@mira.net
Tue Jan 21 16:46:05 PST 2014
Which means, does it not Huw, propagating a counter-ethic, so to speak,
since arguments against an ethic are just words, and the maxim is always
"do as I do not as I say." But an ethic is meaningful, I believe only
within some collaborative endeavour. My relationship to you is
meaningful only in connection of what we do, as we, together. I believe
that "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is fine as far
as it goes, but is inadequate to this mtulicultural, fragmented world.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Huw Lloyd wrote:
> Going back to reference to the bubble and social psychology, it seems
> to me that the "super rich" are to be pitied too. I am not sure
> living in a bubble is such a nice thing, especially given the
> immaturity required to sustain it.
>
> I don't think it is the super rich which are to be combatted, rather
> it is the inane notion that this is something to be admired or
> desired. This, it seems to me, is a more obtainable and more
> rewarding exercise.
>
> Best,
> Huw
>
>
>
> On 22 January 2014 00:07, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
> But your foundation is active in combatting inequality through
> literacy. "Every step of real movement is more important than a
> dozen programmes," as one very serious theorist said.
> Andy
> http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/letters/75_05_05.htm
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
>
>
> Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote:
>
> At 38 I am differing to my elders on this one...albeit, I
> agree with Andy...too young to be pessimistic, but what I have
> seen happen to black america has really disappointed me.
>
>
> Dr. Paul C. Mocombe
> President
> The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.
> www.mocombeian.com <http://www.mocombeian.com>
> www.readingroomcurriculum.com
> <http://www.readingroomcurriculum.com>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Andy Blunden
> Date:01/21/2014 6:36 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam International
>
> David, you are quite correct that agreement on fundamentals of
> theory is
> by no means necessary for collaboration (though on the xmca
> list this is
> feasible). In a sense, the very meaning of "collaboration" is
> that such
> disagreement on fundamentals is suspended. Nonetheless, in
> raising the
> proposal on this list your are inviting collaboration on
> formation of
> the concept of this project, and I have accepted the invitation by
> criticising your concept of the proposal. You have propsed the
> writing
> of an article countering the narrative of Ayn Rand that "the
> ultra-wealthy are the engines of advancement and prosperity
> and the
> saviors of society" and to argue instead that "the gradual
> shift in
> political control of the economy over the past 50 years by the
> ultra-wealthy has reached a kind of tipping point in which the
> gains in
> disparity are so dramatic as to overwhelm any sense of actual
> self-interest." My response is "Well, hello!" This is hardly news,
> David. This has been argued (correctly) for several centuries. The
> wealthy have always been a class of parasites; social progress has
> always been only in the teeth of opposition from all but a few
> of that
> class. I would argue that it is better to enter some actual
> project
> aimed against capitalism and ineqaulity and participate in the
> argument
> about strategy and tactics. Being 68, after 50 years of such
> participation, I accept a somewhat arm's length participation,
> but the
> protagonists (wether real or imagined) are those actually
> engaged in
> that struggle in any formm about how best to further that
> struggle. Not
> the *generalities*, in my view. But I am pleased that you are
> taking up
> the battle and I wish you well. All I can do is offer my
> reflections on
> your object-concept, as others have and will.
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
>
>
> David H Kirshner wrote:
> >> It would appear ...
> >> >
> > Doesn't appear that way to me.
> > In fact, it's not clear to me, contrary to Andy and Paul,
> that in a practical endeavor one has to come to terms with
> foundational issues, at all.
> > The fact that social psychology may not have the foundations
> right doesn't imply that it has no insight to offer, or that a
> make-shift frame of reference can't provide a stable enough
> foundation to move people forward (collectively and
> individually). Indeed, isn't that the necessary way forward in
> any practical endeavor, given the absence of fully worked out
> foundational perspectives (and given the need to address the
> world as we find it, without the theorist's option of
> restricting the domain of inquiry within tractable parameters)?
> > David
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of Dr.
> Paul C. Mocombe
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:12 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam International
> >
> > Andy and david,
> >
> > It would appear that any counter - narrative would have to
> be anti-dialectical and counter-hegemonic, I.e.,
> anti-individual, anti-capitalist, anti-humanity... Can such a
> counter - narrative come from a humanity, including us
> academics, subjectified to reproduce individual wealth, upward
> mobility, and status at the expense of the masses of poor
> around the world, paradoxically, seeking our bourgeois
> lifestyle? >
> > I ask because, it would appear that the earth,in marxian
> terms, as a class for itself, has been begging for humanity to
> change the way it recursively reorganize and reproduce it's
> being-in-it over the last 100 years, but we consistently
> refuse. Instead, turning to dialectical measures, fracking,
> carbon credits, neoliberalism, etc., to attempt to resolve our
> problems and maintain the protestant ethic and the spirit of
> capitalism as an "enframing" (heidegger's term) ontology.
> >
> > I am not a pessimistic person, but it appears that in this
> case we are all dead we just do not know it yet.
> >
> >
> > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe
> > President
> > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.
> > www.mocombeian.com <http://www.mocombeian.com>
> > www.readingroomcurriculum.com
> <http://www.readingroomcurriculum.com>
> >
> > <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From:
> David H Kirshner <dkirsh@lsu.edu <mailto:dkirsh@lsu.edu>>
> </div><div>Date:01/21/2014 2:50 AM (GMT-05:00)
> </div><div>To: ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>,"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> </div><div>Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam
> International </div><div>
> > </div>Andy,
> > I suppose social psychology's unitary and a-historical
> ascription of the human sense of material well-being as
> relative to other people (rather than as relative to one's own
> past) gets it wrong from the start. Still, I think it provides
> a way to understand the individual pursuit of wealth, carried
> to its limits, as anti-social and destructive; an effective
> counter-narrative to the libertarian ideal of the individual
> unfettered by societal constraints. We badly need a
> counter-narrative to regain some kind of political leverage
> for ordinary citizens.
> > If anyone would like to help pull that together in the form
> of a paper, please reply, on-line or off-.
> > Thanks.
> > David
> > dkirsh@lsu.edu <mailto:dkirsh@lsu.edu>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of Andy
> Blunden
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 12:13 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam International
> >
> > I certainly hope so, David, or at least, I hope to read and
> participate in acting out the opening chapter of that narrative.
> >
> > I do think that the "99%/1%" narrative was a project doomed
> to failure however, as it conceived of itself as a linear
> expansion which would somehow bypass social and ideological
> differences. It did not conceive of itselfr as a project at
> all. Just a mesage about the one true world which everyone had
> to come to. Truly magical realism. The plot lies implicit in
> the opening chapter, but it is always far from easy to see how
> the plot will unfold itself though the multiple story-lines
> entailed in this conundrum, Andy
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> >
> >
> > David H Kirshner wrote:
> > >> The operative narrative, at least in the U.S. context,
> dictated by Ayn Rand, is that the ultra-wealthy are the
> engines of advancement and prosperity and the saviors of
> society. What is in their best interest is in all of our best
> interests. We very badly need a counter-narrative.
> >> Andy, is this practical project something that can be
> undertaken and completed in real-time as a theoretical project?
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of Andy
> Blunden
> >> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 11:06 PM
> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam International
> >>
> >> David I have plenty of experience with desparate measures
> over teh
> >> past
> >> 50 years, and I have come very late to "the broader
> theoretical project." It is absolutely essential that the
> practical project and the theoretical project are one and the
> same.
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >> *Andy Blunden*
> >> http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> >>
> >>
> >> David H Kirshner wrote:
> >> >> >>> Andy,
> >>> Sometimes, in order to create a counter-narrative that can
> be effective in the here and now, one has to step outside of
> the broader theoretical project. I guess, for some, this would
> constitute a distraction from the real work, perhaps a
> violation of the true mission of that scholarly endeavor. For
> others, it might be a legitimate (even if imperfect) effort to
> apply what one has come to understand from the larger project.
> For others, still, perhaps simply a political activity
> undertaken with theoretical tools, but with little actual
> relation to the theoretical project.
> >>> Perhaps these are desperate measures that these desperate
> times call for.
> >>> David
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of Andy
> Blunden
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 10:29 PM
> >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam
> International
> >>>
> >>> Well, that's the project I have been collaborating in
> since I was a teenager, David, but it has its challenges, too,
> you know.
> >>>
> >>> First off, these observations about social psychology and
> well-being:
> >>> The point is to have a unit of analysis and one which is
> as valid for making observations about psychology as it is for
> social theory. And in general, this is lacking for what goes
> by the name of "social psychology." People do not of course
> govern their behaviour by evidence-based investigations of the
> likely results of their behaviour.
> >>> People don't set out to "grow a bigger economy" or "have
> more wealth than someone else". The thinking of an individual
> has to be understood (I would contend) within the contexts of
> the projects to which they are committed. That is the reason
> for the relativity in the enjoyment of wealth (which is itself
> of course relative). People make judgments according to the
> norms of the project in which they are participating, and that
> means semantic, theoretical and practical norms. Understanding
> the psychology of political economy is as of one task with
> that of building a project to overthrow the existing political
> economic arrangements and build sustainable arrangements. That
> requires a multitude of projects all willikng and able to
> collaborate with one another.
> >>>
> >>> That's what I think.
> >>> Andy
> >>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>> *Andy Blunden*
> >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> David H Kirshner wrote:
> >>> >>> >>> >>>> I've been sketching out in my
> mind, but not yet had time to research and write, a paper
> tentatively titled:
> >>>> The Psychology of Greed: Why the Ultra-wealthy are
> Despoiling the
> >>>> Planet, Tanking the Economy, and Gutting our Culture In
> the Quest
> >>>> for More
> >>>>
> >>>> The premise is that the psychological metric of our sense
> of material well-being is not accumulation, relative to our
> own past wealth, but the comparative measure of our own wealth
> in relation to that of others. (I believe this is a
> well-established principle of social psychology.) So, for
> example, instead of trying to grow a bigger economy which
> requires a large and healthy middle-class (this is what would
> provide more actual wealth for the ultra-wealthy), they are
> eroding the middle-class as quickly as they can--a strategy
> that maximizes disparity.
> >>>>
> >>>> The major thesis (in the U.S. context) is that the
> gradual shift in political control of the economy over the
> past 50 years by the ultra-wealthy has reached a kind of
> tipping point in which the gains in disparity are so dramatic
> as to overwhelm any sense of actual self-interest. Hence, we
> see increasingly irrational and self-destructive behavior by
> the ultra-wealthy (e.g., the fraudulent housing bubble that
> created what U.S. economists refer to as The Great Recession).
> The conclusion, of course, is a call to action to take back
> control of our political systems so we can set more rational
> policies for the economy.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know if this thesis extends so easily beyond the
> U.S. situation to the world, but if this project appeals, I
> would welcome a collaborative effort--perhaps even one that
> somehow encompasses the whole XMCA listserv as co-authors.
> >>>>
> >>>> David
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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