RE: [xmca] self-regulation

[larry smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com>]

Mom feeds the child and Dad is the head of the family.

> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 00:53:37 -0600
> Subject: Re: [xmca] self-regulation
> From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> 
> Francine,
> 
> Leaving the brain imaging aside, take a quick look at this website and
> let's just start with the simple signs for "mom" and for "dad".
> Any guesses as to how you would represent these in sign language.
> 
> [Pause while the audience thinks up how to iconically represent "mom". But
> please, keep it clean, this is a family program!].
> 
> http://lifeprint.com/asl101/pages-signs/m/mom.htm
> 
> Okay, so did you think of putting your hand with fingers outstretched as in
> showing the number five and touching your thumb to your chin?
> 
> So, how is this is any more analogically (iconically) linked to the
> referent to which it extends than are the sounds "m" "ah" "m"?*
> 
> And for "dad"?
> 
> Put the same five fingers out and touch your thumb to your forehead.
> 
> If these are not analogical in regard to their referent (as the seem to me
> not to be), then wouldn't you agree that they are (or at least could be)
> the basis for self-regulation of conceptual thought?
> 
> And I would add that this view of sign language as purely indexical/iconic
> (analogical in your phrasing) is as common as it is wrong. I have seen top
> scholars of communication put forth these views in national meetings. Very
> sad because of the images it perpetuates about deaf people.
> 
> Mike's UCSD colleague Carol Padden has done some wonderful work pointing
> out these ignorances.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Padden
> 
> And as a deaf scholar who won a Genius grant, I would suspect that Carol
> must have been doing some self-regulation of conceptual thought along the
> way.
> 
> Agreed?
> -greg
> 
> *and note that philologists before Saussure used to argue that all words
> had an iconic character to them. Interesting that Vygotsky was wise enough
> to see past this absurd view of language (another reason why I liken
> Vygotsky to Saussure).
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:46 PM, larry smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com>wrote:
> 
> > Greg,
> > Even if a gesture or pictorial image that has no resemblance to
> > thereferent can be used, I think that words that derive from spoken
> > language have a unique role in the development of self-regulation. I think
> > this is what Vygotsky was saying in 1928 in his paper The Genetic Roots of
> > Thought and Speech (particularly pages 82 and 88 inKozulin's translation in
> > Thought and Language). I have nothing personally invested inbeing right
> > about this, so I welcome counter-arguments.
> > It seems the definition of self-regulation needs clarification - Vygotsky
> > was focusing on self-regulation of conceptual thought. I also wonder what
> > brain imaging technology would show about the development of executive
> > function in the prefrontal cortices in deaf people. I think it has been a
> > mistake for neurologists to refer to the prefrontal cortex as if the left
> > and right prefrontal cortices acted in unity.  There must be different
> > self-regulatory systems operating from the left prefrontal cortex (speech)
> > and perhaps some other type of non-verbal self-regulation operates from the
> > right prefrontal cortex.This other type of non-verbal self-regulation could
> > be left prefrontal in the deaf. Brain imaging techniques like the
> > functional MRI could provide a breakthrough. Since Vygotsky was focused on
> > the ability to self-regulate conceptual thought we can expect that
> > self-regulation of sensori-motor functions is going involve the development
> > of a different neurological system.
> > Also there are bound to be differences between people who have been deaf
> > since birth and people who lost their hearing after having learned even a
> > little speech (The infant Helen Keller was alreadysaying a few words
> > including the word water before she lost her hearing).
> > One of my closest friends is an 83 year old woman who has been deaf
> > sinceage 4 (German Measles). I have seen her interact with other people who
> > are deafand some of the signs they use are analogical in regard to the
> > referent.For example, spaghetti (the thumbs and index fingers of both hands
> > touch and thenmove away from each other in a straight line as if stretching
> > a piece of spaghetti)and dog is represented by the two hands patting the
> > leg together as if the paws of a dog trying to get attention). But at other
> > times, words are spelled out using hand signs for alphabet letters that do
> > not look like the written form of the alphabet letter. But then theseare
> > words that derived from spoken language even if the vocalizations are not
> > being made.
> > I will look for the research on Nicaraguan Sign Language.
> > > Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 00:15:52 -0600
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] self-regulation
> > > From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >
> > > Francine,
> > > Do you think that Vygotsky was right in positing that:
> > > "the spoken word has a unique function in self-regulation because it can
> > be
> > > totally separate from the referent, whereas gestures and iconic-pictorial
> > > illustrations bear some element of resemblance."
> > > Most particularly, do you think that ASL is purely gestural and
> > > iconic-pictorial?
> > > Makes me wonder what kind of sign language Vygotsky would have been
> > > studying.
> > > Home sign?
> > > Maria Coppolla (sp?), among others, has done some really great work on
> > > Nicaraguan Sign Language. The upshot of it is that when sign language
> > > develops in a community, signs develop a fully *symbolic* capacity (cf.
> > > Peirce on "symbol") that does this work of being totally separate from
> > the
> > > referent ("arbitrary", we might say, to use Saussurean terminology).
> > >
> > > But, importantly, you only get this when you have a numerous and dense
> > > community of deaf people who can develop such arbitrary signs (and this
> > is
> > > a fascinating population to think about language genesis with! And guess
> > > where these numerous and dense communities have typically been found:
> > > Schools!). Without a significantly large and dense community of deaf
> > > people, deaf are stuck making up signs for hearing people who rely too
> > > heavily on spoken word to be able to imagine that one can do the same
> > thing
> > > with gestures.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > > -greg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 1:05 PM, larry smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Message from Francine:
> > > > Larry,
> > > > You might find something useful in a 1992 book edited by Diaz and
> > > > Berktitled Private Speech (Erlbaum) - I wrote Chapter 5 on the Social
> > > > Originsof Private Speech in pretend Play.
> > > > Bodrova and Leong's Tools of the Mind Preschools have been recocognized
> > > > fortheir success in using verbally guided pretend play to develop
> > > > self-regulation.They are currently doing a joint research project with
> > > > University of Chicago researchers.Adele Diamond, a neuropsychologist,
> > has
> > > > documented neurological correlatesas self-regulation developed in Tool
> > of
> > > > the Mind Preschoolers.
> > > > In regard to the use of gesture for self-regulation as early as
> > infancy:A
> > > > few years ago I was giving my usual lecture on how Vygotsky
> > > > transitionedfrom teaching the deaf to researching the role of speech in
> > > > self-regulation.I said that Vygotsky realized that the teaching of sign
> > > > language to the deafwas only done to teach communication with others,
> > but
> > > > that speech in the hearinghad two functions 'communication and
> > > > self-regulation.' A related question is how tohelp the deaf to use sign
> > > > language for self-regulation. Well, there happended to bea deaf woman
> > in
> > > > the class with another woman who would sign my lectures to her. It was
> > a
> > > > moment of truth, I turned to them and asked if the deaf woman ever
> > signs to
> > > > herself to direct her own thoughts - her answer was yes, even in her
> > dreams.
> > > > Never-the-less, Vygotsky is quite clear that the spoken word has a
> > unique
> > > > functionin self-regulation because it can be totally separate from the
> > > > referent, whereasgestures and iconic-pictorial illustrations bear some
> > > > element of resemblance.
> > > > In regard to the Vancouver school's goal of teaching self-regulatory
> > > > private speech,I can think of simple ways to help the teachers how to
> > > >  identify the types of self-regulatoryspeech that students at different
> > > > grade levels need  per subject area. [I just revieweda journal article
> > from
> > > > the Zoology department at a University in New Zealand thatwas looking
> > at
> > > > verbal self-regulation in graduate students.]
> > > > Meichenbaum's  work on Cognitive-Behavioral Modification  was inspred
> > by
> > > > Vygotskyand Luria's writings, so basic steps in using private speech to
> > > > focus attentioncan be found in that area of research and therapy
> > (beginning
> > > > in the 1960's).
> > > > I get the sense that Vygotskian researchers have become estranged from
> > one
> > > > another(and from the associated research literatures) because of
> > artificial
> > > > theoretical boundariesthat have been drawn.
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 10:06:55 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: RES: [xmca] "semiotic/semantic [semicheskyj] analysis".
> > Can
> > > > you  help me?
> > > > > From: lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Francine
> > > > > Thanks for the reference to Winsler's edited book, "Private Speech,
> > > > > Executive Function".
> > > > > I have read the excerpt on Google books and two topics were
> > intriguing.
> > > > > The notion of *self-reflection* in 12 month old infants who were
> > > > privately
> > > > > self-regulating THROUGH gesture previously modeled by adults.
> > > > > The 2nd intriguing question is that literature may profoundly
> > influence
> > > > > (constitute) a distinct TYPE of self-regulation.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would appreciate if you could email some relevant literature on
> > > > > developing self regulation through private speech.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you send to
> > > > >
> > > > > lplarry@live.com
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be grateful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Francine, the concept of *self-regulation* and *social-emotional
> > > > learning*
> > > > > is becoming a central focus in public schooling and in the Vancouver
> > > > school
> > > > > system has been highlighted as a central goal that all teachers must
> > > > > *teach*.
> > > > >
> > > > > THIS topic of *private speech* I see as a fulcrum or pivot around
> > which
> > > > to
> > > > > enter dialogue at the school level.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for your generous offer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 9:05 AM, larry smolucha <
> > lsmolucha@hotmail.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Message from Francine,
> > > > > > We had to surrender copyright to the publisher,which is the case
> > for
> > > > most
> > > > > > academic books and journals.Since the book was just published, I
> > do not
> > > > > > think they would let the paperbe posted on-line just yet.
> > > > > > But if you send me  your private e-mail address, I can e-mail
> > copies of
> > > > > > similarpapers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br
> > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > Subject: RES: [xmca] "semiotic/semantic [semicheskyj] analysis".
> > Can
> > > > you
> > > > > >      help    me?
> > > > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:05:56 -0300
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you can send the paper Smolucha, L. and Smolucha, F. (2012)
> > > > Vygotsky's
> > > > > > > Theory of Creativity inContemporary Perspectives on Research in
> > > > > > Creativity
> > > > > > > in Early Childhood Education(Information Age Publishing,
> > pp.63-88) to
> > > > > > xmca?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joao
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Mensagem original-----
> > > > > > > De: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> > xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > > Em
> > > > > > nome
> > > > > > > de larry smolucha
> > > > > > > Enviada em: terça-feira, 23 de abril de 2013 07:42
> > > > > > > Para: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > > > > Assunto: RE: [xmca] "semiotic/semantic [semicheskyj] analysis".
> > Can
> > > > you
> > > > > > help
> > > > > > > me?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Message from Francine Smolucha:
> > > > > > > Achilles,
> > > > > > > The most direct application of Vygotsky is to observe (and
> > document)
> > > > > > howthe
> > > > > > > verbal guidance of a more knowledgeable person is internalized
> > > > assilent
> > > > > > > self-guiding inner speech. This is done through discourse
> > > > > > analysis.Sometimes
> > > > > > > there is an intermediate step where the learner speaks parts of
> > > > theverbal
> > > > > > > guidance outloud to him(her)self ( Social Speech - Private Speech
> > > > -Inner
> > > > > > > Speech).[Note Vygotsky used the term egocentric speech instead
> > of the
> > > > > > > contemporary term private speech]. It would be great to use
> > neural
> > > > > > imaging
> > > > > > > techniques to documenthow the cortical functions of the
> > prefrontal
> > > > > > cortices
> > > > > > > change as the executivefunction emerges as the self-guiding
> > speech is
> > > > > > > employed and internalized.
> > > > > > > Two excellent books that deal with this process are Private
> > Speech,
> > > > > > > Executive Functioning, and the Development of
> > VerbalSelf-Regulation
> > > > by
> > > > > > > Winsler, A,. et. al. ( Cambridge, 2009) The Prefrontal Cortex by
> > > > Joaquin
> > > > > > > Fuster  (Academic Press, 2009).[Pages 369-371 discuss the
> > > > development of
> > > > > > > creativity as prefrontal self-regulationof imagination with
> > direct
> > > > > > reference
> > > > > > > to the work of both Vygotsky and Luria. Thisis consistent with my
> > > > > > > interpretation of Vygotsky's theory of creativity -
> >  seeSmolucha, L.
> > > > and
> > > > > > > Smolucha, F. (2012) Vygotsky's Theory of Creativity
> > inContemporary
> > > > > > > Perspectives on Research in Creativity in Early Childhood
> > > > > > > Education(Information Age Publishing, pp.63-88)] Hope this was of
> > > > some
> > > > > > help.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 04:28:38 +0000
> > > > > > > > Subject: [xmca] "semiotic/semantic [semicheskyj] analysis".
> > Can you
> > > > > > help
> > > > > > > me?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greetings for all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please, I understand that I have a major methodological
> > problem in
> > > > my
> > > > > > > nearest research project: "how to understand human making-sense
> > > > through
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > concrete acts of a person's speech?". Along many years I had
> > thought
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > Vygotsky's claim that "“Semiotic [and/or "semantic" =
> > semicheskyj]
> > > > > > analysis
> > > > > > > is the only adequate method for the study of the systemic and
> > > > semantic
> > > > > > > structure of consciousness.” (see
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/1934/problem-consciousness.ht
> > > > > > > m). But it is not so clear how to proceed "Semiotic/semantic
> > > > analysis".
> > > > > > > Then, if you pleased, could somebody help me, shining my mind
> > about
> > > > the
> > > > > > > (im)possibilities about somebody really learn *how to do* such
> > kind
> > > > of
> > > > > > > analysis? Here in Brazil, close to me, there is nobody working
> > with
> > > > > > > something in this direction, then I have no local resources to
> > ask
> > > > for...
> > > > > > > Forgive me about the naive character of the question, but I
> > really
> > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > learn about.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you very much, once more. Best wishes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Achilles from Brazil.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > __________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > Visiting Assistant Professor
> > > Department of Anthropology
> > > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > Brigham Young University
> > > Provo, UT 84602
> > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Visiting Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> __________________________________________
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