Re: [xmca] Reading Piaget again...

["Goncu, Artin" <goncu@uic.edu>]

Thank you, Jon. I didn't mention Piaget's references to parent-child
interaction in "the Moral Judgment" since the entire book is about the
role of adult-child relationship and its relevance to moral development. 
ag


On Wed, February 13, 2013 6:49 pm, Jonathan Tudge wrote:
> Artin and Huw,
>
> I have students read the following as part of my Piaget offerings in a
> theories class:
>  Piaget, J. (1973). *The child and reality: Problems of genetic
> psychology*.
> New York: Grossman. Chapter 1: ?Time and the intellectual development of
> the child? (original work published in 1962).
>
> It's quite clear in this chapter that Piaget was more than willing to
> acknowledge the influence of both social class and culture, not in
> changing
> the order through which children would pass through stages of development
> but in speeding up or slowing down the age at which they'd be likely to
> show evidence of being in one or other stage.
>
> He wrote "stages are precisely characterized by their set order of
> succession. They are not stages which can be given a constant
> chronological
> date. On the contrary, the ages can vary from one society to another..."
> (p. 10).  (As this chapter was initially presented as a lecture he
> somewhere or other, tongue-in-cheek no doubt, mentions that the children
> of
> his listeners undoubtedly go through the stages faster.)  Towards the end
> of the chapter he wrote as follows:
> "Moreover, we will find collective accelerations in certain social classes
> and in certain milieux" (pp. 25-26), and went on to discuss differences in
> children's responses in Geneva, Montreal,  Martinique (a delay of
> approximately four years), Tehran (similar to Geneva), and rural Iran (a
> delay of approximately 2.5 years).
>
> We can, of course, argue about the manner in which non-schooled children
> were tested (as Mike and others have done very effectively), but it's
> really hard to say that Piaget held that culture or class were irrelevant
> to children's cognitive development.
>
> In the book that Artin mentioned you can also find lots of evidence of the
> ways in which parents and children influence children's social and moral
> development--yet still we're confronted with the image of Piaget's child
> being the little scientist working alone on the mysteries of the world.
>
> All the best,
>
> Jon
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Jonathan Tudge
> Professor
> Office: 155 Stone
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>
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>
> phone (336) 223-6181. [However, given the amount I travel, it's best to
> communicate with me by email.]
> fax   (336) 334-5076
>
> http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/facultystaff/Tudge/Tudge.html
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Huw Lloyd
> <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On 13 February 2013 21:19, Goncu, Artin <goncu@uic.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > In re-reading Piaget for a class I teach, I saw the following
>> sentences
>> in
>> > "The Moral Judgement of the Child" that I had underlined many years
>> ago,
>> > noticed them again, and felt that he may not have been given
>> sufficient
>> > credit for his observations about the role of culture and class in his
>> > discussions.  On p. 209-10 referring to the findings he has just
>> reported,
>> > he says "To begin with, they relate only to the children belonging to
>> a
>> > certain ethnical (sic) group and a certain social stratum (the poorer
>> > parts of Geneva and a few children from an elementary school at
>> > Neuchatel.)  I wish he had theorized about the role of culture and
>> class,
>> > going beyond these observations but that is another story...
>> >
>> >
>> My reading recollection is that he is forever hedging his bets and
>> encumbered by an audience expecting a "rational" account of genetic
>> phenomena.  On one occasion I was hunting about for some Piagetian ideas
>> that, I was confident, were laid out with clarity only to discover that
>> is
>> was Vygotsky writing about Piaget.
>>
>> No doubt there's much more to it -- the influence of idioms such as
>> French
>> sociologists and psychologists, translations etc.
>>
>> Huw
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Artin Goncu, Ph.D
>> > Professor,
>> > Educational Psychology
>> > College of Education M/C 147
>> > 1040 W. Harrison St.
>> > Chicago, IL 60607
>> > http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm
>> > (312) 996-5259
>> >
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Artin Goncu, Ph.D
Professor,
Educational Psychology
College of Education M/C 147
1040 W. Harrison St.
Chicago, IL 60607
http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm
(312) 996-5259

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