Re: [xmca] "Rising to the concrete"

[Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu>]

Putting together the Sayeki article that Mike pointed to, with its talk of "seeing as," and Brecht's post, with his mention up upward and downward movement, suggests to me that the movement from concrete to abstract to concrete involves imagination, and also that it is a hermeneutic process: I'm reminded both of Aristotle's definition of 'hermeneia' was 'saying something of something' and Wittgenstein's emphasis on 'seeing as.'

Martin


On Aug 15, 2012, at 1:02 PM, mike cole wrote:

> Thanks for posting the link to the paper, Andy.
> 
> I believe that a starting point is to ask the following question(s):
> 
> 1. What is it that accounts for the increase in time to carry out a mental
> rotation for the plain
> conglomeration of blocks?
> 
> 2. Whatever the process is, why is it that the amount of rotation is
> irrelevant if the figure has
> a schematic face/head on it in a place where it appears person-like?
> 
> Maybe all the concrete is between my ears.
> mike
> 
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> 
>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/**ap81v3n2.PDF<http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/ap81v3n2.PDF>p.16
>> 
>> Mike, I also, at first had the same problem with motorscooter indicator,
>> and I used a different but similar tactic to overcome it. Also, as a civil
>> engineer I learnt that it was essential to imagine yourself as the building
>> in order to nknow where the stresses would be and effectively design it,
>> and most difficult problems, up to the point of calculations could be
>> solved this way.
>> 
>> But ... :) ... I can't see what this has to do with abstract and concrete.
>> Can you explain?
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>> mike cole wrote:
>> 
>>> A wonderful paper by Yutaka Sayeki (with two key figures reversed, but it
>>> is obvious where the mistake was made when you read it) has an example of
>>> what I take to be almost a "measure" of rising to the concrete (see also
>>> Davydov's ideas on the topic).
>>> 
>>> Its part of a special issue of the newsletter. Accessible to anyone at
>>> lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>
>>> 
>>> *
>>> 
>>> Volume 3, Number 2 April 1981
>>> 
>>> *
>>> 
>>> AZUMA, Hiroshi: /A Note on Cross-Cultural Study/
>>> 
>>> INAGAKI, Kayoko: /Facilitation of Knowledge Integration through /
>>> 
>>> /Classroom Discussion/
>>> 
>>> KASHIWAGI, Keiko: /Note on the Socialization Processes in Japan/
>>> 
>>> HATANO, Giyoo, KUHARA, Keiko, and AKIYAMA, Michael: /Kanji Help /
>>> 
>>> /Readers of Japanese Infer the Meaning of Unfamiliar Words/
>>> 
>>> SAITO, Hirofumi/: Toward Comparative Studies in Reading Kanji and /
>>> 
>>> /Kana/
>>> 
>>> SAYEKI, Yutaka: /"Body Analogy" and the Cognition of Rotated Figures/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 5:24 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com<mailto:
>>> huw.softdesigns@gmail.**com <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    On 15 August 2012 13:01, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>>>    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Well, these issues are not going to be solved in 5 minutes, Huw.
>>>    Analog
>>>> and digital belong to a completely different frame than the
>>>    concepts of
>>>> abstract/concrete and general/universal which I think Greg asked
>>>    about
>>>> initially.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>    Analog was an elaboration.  This point is not necessary to resolve
>>>    "universal" in the Lenin quote.
>>> 
>>>    Huw
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Let me be brief then. Ilyenkov famously makes the point that
>>>    (exchange)
>>>> value is an ideal, but it is also real. The market implements a
>>>    process of
>>>> abstracting the value of commodities but it is the very
>>>    concreteness of the
>>>> market which makes that process possible.
>>> 
>>>    Democracy is an ideal which really motivates millions of people and
>>>> underpins constitutional governments.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Universal suffrage allows that insane people, criminals and
>>>    children do
>>>> not vote. And what is more, when the President is elected, only
>>>    the votes
>>>> of 51% count. (There are of course plenty of "Ah, but ..."s
>>>    about this, but
>>>> this is what is meant by the difference between the general and the
>>>> universal.)
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.marxists.org/****reference/archive/hegel/works/****<http://www.marxists.org/**reference/archive/hegel/works/**>
>>>> 
>>>    sl/slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b<http:**//www.marxists.org/reference/**
>>> archive/hegel/works/sl/**slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b<http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sl/slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Andy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>    ______________________________**____________
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> --
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>> 
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